BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Discussion on what it means to be straight acting, whether it's good, bad or indifferent.

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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby Learning » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:25 pm

mijopaalmc wrote:The issue here is that rate of seroconversion among serodiscordant, consistent condom user is about 2% and the seroconversion rate on a per act basis for unprotected, receptive anal intercourse is about .5%. In other words, if one is only having unprotected sex with only HIV+ partners, they would have to have sex 780 times to run the same cumulative risk in the same time period that serodicordant couples do.


The statistical evidence provides little comfort when stories like Mason Wyler's HIV infection come up. Here is what Mason said on his blog:

"I tested positive. I have only myself to blame. I have HIV and it kind of sucks...

First, I would like to say that I was depressed (for a short while) NOT surprised that I had contracted HIV. I am solely responsible for my health. I was well aware of the risks and dangers associated with bareback sex but I ignored them. Is that stupid of me? I suppose. Do I wish I had been safer? Of course. But there is no changing the past, I can only hope that I make smarter decisions in my future."

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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby Cachasa » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:46 am

Barebacking is extremely dangerous and so is anal sex for that matter. Personally, I think it's time to start saying that out loud again.
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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby doctor dan » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:36 am

Yes, you did so 3.5 years ago in this very same thread. :roll:
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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby nimby » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:13 pm

And obviously the message still isn't getting through, so keep saying it till the message is loud and clear.
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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby mijopaalmc » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:05 pm

nimby wrote:And obviously the message still isn't getting through, so keep saying it till the message is loud and clear.


You seriously think that people knowing the risks of a behavior will actually stop them from engaging in it? :shock:

Personally, I find the idea that MSM who don't use condoms are either ignorant of the risks or being wilfully stupid to be condescending and insulting to those MSM who choose not to use condoms. It seems that those who are opposed to not using condoms during sexual contact are denying that people can weigh the risks and come to the opposite conclusion that they did.
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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby nimby » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:33 pm

mijopaalmc wrote:
nimby wrote:And obviously the message still isn't getting through, so keep saying it till the message is loud and clear.


You seriously think that people knowing the risks of a behavior will actually stop them from engaging in it? :shock:

Personally, I find the idea that MSM who don't use condoms are either ignorant of the risks or being wilfully stupid to be condescending and insulting to those MSM who choose not to use condoms. It seems that those who are opposed to not using condoms during sexual contact are denying that people can weigh the risks and come to the opposite conclusion that they did.

Me thinks that you are too kind to the general masses. The funny thing about common sense is that it's not that common anymore. There is always a new crop of gay boys who need to be taught the dangers of anonymous hook-ups, just like straight teens do. That, my friend is common sense.
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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby mijopaalmc » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:33 pm

nimby wrote:Me thinks that you are too kind to the general masses. The funny thing about common sense is that it's not that common anymore. There is always a new crop of gay boys who need to be taught the dangers of anonymous hook-ups, just like straight teens do. That, my friend is common sense.


Is there any evidence that sex education that honestly discusses the risks of sexual activity actually lower the rate of adolescent.sex or increases condom use ?

I am still honestly baffled as to why you that everyone would come to the same conclusion if they only knew the risks. People engage in many different dangerous activities every day, and knowing that the activities that they engage in are dangerous doesn't prevent them from engaging in such actvities.
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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby furface » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:03 pm

mijopaalmc wrote:Is there any evidence that sex education that honestly discusses the risks of sexual activity actually lower the rate of adolescent.sex or increases condom use ?


CDC 1996: "Compared to the U.S. (which has among the highest STD rates in the industrialized world), Canada and some countries in Western Europe have nearly eliminated infectious syphilis. U.S. rates of gonorrhea are 50 to 100 times higher than rates in Sweden."

Given the increasing prevalence/reliance on "abstinence only" sex education (a truly failed scheme) I'm certain this statistic is still valid, and very sad. Scandinavia has extensive, age appropriate, fact based sex education. and

some of the lowest rates of STDs in the developed world,
lower rates of teen and unplanned pregnancy, and
among the oldest age of first sexual activity.

I'd say an emphatic YES.

I am still honestly baffled as to why you that everyone would come to the same conclusion if they only knew the risks. People engage in many different dangerous activities every day, and knowing that the activities that they engage in dangerous doesn't prevent them from engaging in such actvities.


No one expects everyone to make such choices. That said, it's far more reasonable to expect many more people making better choices when they actually have the information in the area. Educate 'em and keep at it. That works, mythology based propaganda, not so much.
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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby olywaguy » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:08 pm

For the latest statistics, take a look at the Sexually Transmitted Diseases, Surveillance 2010. The report deals with chlamydia, gonorrhea and syphyllis.
Be sure to click on the .pdf file of the full report. Page 77 has the section on Men Who Have Sex With Men.

You can more data and statistics on the CDC website.
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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby mijopaalmc » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:33 pm

furface wrote:CDC 1996: "Compared to the U.S. (which has among the highest STD rates in the industrialized world), Canada and some countries in Western Europe have nearly eliminated infectious syphilis. U.S. rates of gonorrhea are 50 to 100 times higher than rates in Sweden."

Given the increasing prevalence/reliance on "abstinence only" sex education (a truly failed scheme) I'm certain this statistic is still valid, and very sad. Scandinavia has extensive, age appropriate, fact based sex education. and

some of the lowest rates of STDs in the developed world,
lower rates of teen and unplanned pregnancy, and
among the oldest age of first sexual activity.

I'd say an emphatic YES.


Thanks for the information.

furface wrote:No one expects everyone to make such choices. That said, it's far more reasonable to expect many more people making better choices when they actually have the information in the area. Educate 'em and keep at it. That works, mythology based propaganda, not so much.


Right, but neither does uniform condemnation.

olywaguy wrote:For the latest statistics, take a look at the Sexually Transmitted Diseases, Surveillance 2010. The report deals with chlamydia, gonorrhea and syphyllis.
Be sure to click on the .pdf file of the full report. Page 77 has the section on Men Who Have Sex With Men.

You can more data and statistics on the CDC website.


Oh, I used to live in Whitman County, the county with the highest rate of gonorrhea and chlamydia in Washington.
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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby archon_88 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:23 pm

If people can't make reasonable risk assessments as responsable adults then there's really no hope for them. There's nothing wrong with condemning smoking as a dangerous behaviour (several people in my family have died from smoking-related illnesses), so I can't see why condemning barebacking is any different. That said, I'm a pretty libertarian guy, and I generally support the principle of giving people space to make stupid decisions.

Let's step out of gay-fantasy-land for a second and enter the real world... keeping people alive and healthy is infinitely more important than any kind of ideology-based validation of their sexual practices. The bottom line is that barebacking is dangerous, completely unnecessary and has a very tenuous relationship with the basic reality of male/male intimacy. It's not heroic or adventurous, and it is absolutely not in any sense worth dying for.

Lest I be accused of "imposing my opinions" or "dehumanising" people who choose to bareback, I'd like to point out that you're free to disagree with me as much as you like, and you might even win a Darwin award for your trouble.
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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby Ben » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:24 am

Like people have said before. Casual sex with strangers better be wrapped and safe.
Those who practice exclusive LTRs can enjoy sex that includes potential exchange of bodily fluids without having to worry about potential death and spooky doom.


...which is why I'm one of the latter. 8)



furface wrote:Scandinavia has extensive, age appropriate, fact based sex education. and

some of the lowest rates of STDs in the developed world,
lower rates of teen and unplanned pregnancy, and
among the oldest age of first sexual activity.

I'd say an emphatic YES.



I'm Scandinavian, and I approve this message. :wink:
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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby Lesley R. Charles » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:48 pm

Ben wrote:Like people have said before. Casual sex with strangers better be wrapped and safe.
Those who practice exclusive LTRs can enjoy sex that includes potential exchange of bodily fluids without having to worry about potential death and spooky doom.


...which is why I'm one of the latter. 8)



furface wrote:Scandinavia has extensive, age appropriate, fact based sex education. and

some of the lowest rates of STDs in the developed world,
lower rates of teen and unplanned pregnancy, and
among the oldest age of first sexual activity.

I'd say an emphatic YES.


Ben I do agree with you but I think I would probably still use protection just to be safe.


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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby Ben » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:44 pm

A 6+ year strong relationship with no extra-relational intercourse, is good enough at least for me.
There is always the risk that somebody's cheating. I know there will always be lies between people, but I think that if you go into a relationship with full disclosure and honesty - and no condemning of each other's cravings. At least I think the relationship would have ended even before it really started if one party feel they can't commit.

When my partner and I started out, we both agreed that we would lead an exclusive LTR, and that if this sentiment every changed in the slightest, we would be upfront about it and talk it out. Again, I think it's the refrain from condemnation of the other persons cravings that will cause them to cheat because they don't wanna risk losing what they have, and try to have the cake and eat it too.

I dunno, maybe that sounds naive.
Last edited by Ben on Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby Lesley R. Charles » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:28 am

Ben wrote:A 5+ year strong relationship with no extra-relational intercourse, is good enough at least for me.
There is always the risk that somebody's cheating. I know there will always be lies between people, but I think that if you go into a relationship with full disclosure and honesty - and no condemning of each other's cravings. At least I think the relationship would have ended even before it really started if one party feel they can't commit.

When my partner and I started out, we both agreed that we would lead an exclusive LTR, and that if this sentiment every changed in the slightest, we would be upfront about it and talk it out. Again, I think it's the refrain from condemnation of the other persons cravings that will cause them to cheat because they don't wanna risk losing what they have, and try to have the cake and eat it too.

I dunno, maybe that sounds naive.


Ben, sometimes a naivety is good. Actually, it sounds perfect and I think most of us wish we could find that type of romance in our lives. I also think when you have found each other you both have to work at keeping things the way the are, and avoid the pitfall of taking each other for granted. I can't believe it has been five years all ready.

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Re: BAREBACKERS?? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THEM?

Postby Eric in Dodge City » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:56 pm

I must admit that I engaged in bareback sex occasionally when I was younger, but I somehow managed to escape HIV infection. This is entirely due to dumb luck and not to any forethought on my part. When I smartened up and realized that I was putting myself (and any future partners) in danger, I stopped.

Given my history, I can't condemn barebackers for their behavior. That said, I can't believe I was willing to endanger my health for the sake of a night's pleasure.

The bottom line for me is this: The pleasure simply isn't worth the risk.
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