Queer by choice?

There's a lot of discussions about "internalized homophobia" going on here. Talk about racism, prejudice, religion, and all that's on your mind. Now you have a new place to gab.

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Queer by choice?

Postby nimby » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:57 pm

Came accross this website and found it rather educational. To many, they seem to believe that their sexuality IS a choice. Yays or nays?

http://www.queerbychoice.com/
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby Lesley R. Charles » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:37 am

Let's see, would I choose to feel like I was born the sex opposite my body, so that I can have people laugh and point at me or would I choose to be accepted by everybody else with no problems. So no, I don't think I chose to be transgendered. It is who I am and I have known that since I was three.
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby backpacker » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:07 pm

Have to say no on that one.
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby furface » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:31 pm

Ran through the site and I think I hurt my l'il alleged brain. :?

I can't decide if these folks are actually serious, or they're running a site in the fashion of Christwire and Betty Bowers. Another possibility is they are running a site for gay apologetics and trying to put up an acceptable front for themselves.

After being out, and hangin' with gays, for near 50 years I can assure y'all no one ever chooses to be gay. What they actually do is accept they're gay and make the best of their lives. Well, the healthy ones do any way. One thing I do agree with on the site is folks do make a conscious decision, for the most part, as to their behavior. Folks decide to be contributing citizens or not. Decide to follow the latest circuit party or engage in foolish and/or risky behavior. And so forth..... They no more make a decision as to their orientation than they do as to their actual eye color, height, or ethnicity.
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby nimby » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:54 pm

One thing to be sure of. As with all other "medical conditions" that are genetic, along with all other genetic tampering that science is doing, if it is determined that homosexuality is genetic, there will be a whole new type of scientific entrepneur who will be all too willing to remove homosexuality from your familial gene pool permanently. If it is now possible to custom order a baby...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/03 ... ty_cl.html

why not order a straight one too, especially since no one would ever want to be gay. Imagine a world with no homosexuals, with that malady whiped off the face of the Earth. Believe me,the possibility is much closer than you think. What then?
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby Phoenix6570 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:00 pm

Definitely nay. Whenever I think about my childhood I know I was gay back then too. I always had an inclination toward men which grew in time.

Now if there was a choice and I could go back in time and pick what my sexuality would be; I would still be gay. Men are just to damn sexy... :twisted:
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby Earl Butz » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:29 am

After I came out, the first thing mom told me was she knew it wasn't a choice. Misinformation like that causes alot of anxiety.

You can choose who to screw around with, of course. :roll:
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby crankycurmudgeon » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:57 am

Lusting after the Don Schollander poster in second grade after the 1964 Olympics. I can assure you, it was not a choice. How I dealt with it was a choice.

Also, if it is a choice, when did they decide to be heterosexual?
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby Phoenix6570 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:24 am

^ Thats a good point that nobody ever delves into.
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby DeckApe » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:28 pm

crankycurmudgeon wrote:Lusting after the Don Schollander poster in second grade after the 1964 Olympics.


Wow! I looked him up and I can see why he would turn your crank. Can you be specific about which poster? Is the image out there on the big ol' interweb somewhere? :D
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby crankycurmudgeon » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:54 pm

^Deckage,

I checked the Google images and couldn't come up with the image I remember - I think it was of one where he is in his warmups and wearing the 4 medals. However, as a second grader, I'm sure that heroic acts and the piercing eyes got me, although - and perhaps this is my wishful imagination (we are talking 1964) - there may have been a bit of a bulge involved. Another image I have in mind is one in a speedo
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby olywaguy » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:41 pm

Is it this one?

Image

Image

Image

As a middle aged man at age 58
Image
Carlos

"I just want to suck his tongue out of his mouth !"--JPaul


http://www.askcarlos.com/
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby medic » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:18 am

every time someone mentions that it was a choice i ask them when they chose to be straight. How could any one think that someone rational would choose to be gay?
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby nimby » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:50 am

I can answer that. Some guys choose to be straight when they realise that they want to have a family; or when all their friends are getting married and starting families; when thet are getting pressured from family to grow up, settle down and find a nice girl; when a sibling/cousin or friend comes out and suffers shame and humiliation at the hands of homophobic family members; and finally when society tells them that they are not complete until the find a wife. Not all guys are strong enough to go against everyone they know and love and follow their instinct. Many cave in to the pressure only to lead very miserable lives and come out much later in life IF they realise that they can no longer carry on in unhappy lives. Then they choose to be happy, be true to thenselves and be gay.

Now I may be wrong, but I seem to notice that for some reason, men who transition later in life, after maybe a marriage and a couple of kids, are, for the most part, happier with their sexuality than, say one who has struggled with homoisexuality their entire life. Is that right? Just an observation.
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby furface » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:34 am

Nimby: I'd quibble over your assessment. Are you saying they chose to be straight? They initially chose straight orientation and later chose to be gay? I think not.

It'd make more sense to assume they were gay/bi, chose to act in accordance with familial/societal expectations, and later came to realize they could no longer maintain the fiction they were straight. The toxic closet got to them.

That's a choice of behavior, not a change of orientation. I would posit that orientation, especially towards the extremes of the scale, is immutable, but individual behavior is more malleable particularly in the center of the range.
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby nimby » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:50 pm

I expect you to quibble Lou, that's why we're here. LOL!!! But seriously, The old nature versus nurture debate can go in circles for Millennia and still no definite answers will appear. Human sexuality is an extremely complex topic that does need to be studied, but not for blame purposes, rather for universal acceptance of all people and their sexuality. Human sexuality can be the source of great joy or great sorrow in one's life and and is worthy of positive debate, to find a common ground of study, understanding and knowledge. It's safe to say that this research is still in it's infancy, but one must keep an open mind to ALL available data, not just biological, but also emotional and environmental data as well. This could only further help the progress of the research. After all, "science" has been wrong in the past in so many areas. Isn't it best to study all areas of information, rather than just tell these guys that their feelings and experiences don't count cause it doesn't fit the biological scientific model?


http://www.petertatchell.net/gay%20gene ... 0index.htm

One thing I am sure of though. If sexual orientation is deemed genetic in nature, in keeping with the current scientific mode, it will be deemed fixable, or worse yet, eradicated from society all together. Is that acceptable?

Peace.
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby JustJack » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:48 pm

Good post Nimby.

There is certainly a possible danger if it were proved to be nature that's responsible for homosexuality and the specific part of the genome responsible could be detected and perhaps removed or modified in utero. The same danger exists if the genes for excess body hair, dark hair versus blonde, left-handedness, shortness, nose shape, etc. were identified I suppose. It may sound like science fiction still (if you haven't seen the movie Gattacca yet I highly recommend it for a taste of what such a society might be like) but science will eventually develop the technology to create made-to-order babies. I saw a program on Discovery recently where they showed scientists that had identified the part of a fruit fly's gene that created spots on the wings, as well as the specific part of the gene that switched it on or off. Not only were they able to genetically alter the genes of a strain of spotless fruit fly to give it spots, but they even made the spot so it would glow in the dark for good measure by splicing in a gene fragment from a phosphorescent animal. Progress is defenitely being made.

On the flip side though, if nature were eliminated and nurture were accepted as the sole reason for homosexuality you could expect an increase in pressure to "convert" gays back to "normal" (the way they were born). It would become completely unacceptable to be gay since it's clearly an abberation in upbringing that should be completely correctable. The blame would certainly land squarely on parents as the ones solely responsible. It would be even harder on them than it is now. I doubt there would be any peace for anyone who is gay as long as it's deemed that they were not born that way and could therefore be changed. It may still not be your choice to be gay since you couldn't choose how you were brought up, but thank God that it's not too late for you to abandon your wanton, promiscuous, lascivious behavior and become normal like everyone else!
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby nimby » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:24 pm

JJ, it's already happening.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/03 ... ty_cl.html

If it were determined to be nature, then the gene could be engineered right out of existence, not even giving a chance for a homosexual baby to be born. But if it was determined to be nurture, and homosexuality reamined undetected (as it quite often does) till, say puberty more or less, then it becomes a conscious decision of behalf of the parents or the child itself to at least accept it for was it is, or try to "correct" it (which we all know isn't possible anyway). Our behaviour does become a part of us, whether learned or not, when introduced at differeing stages of mental development. I do believe that most experiences, even in early development stages, help to determine who he become as adults, and at least homosexuality has a chance to survive as a trait. I really do believe though that, whether nature or nurture, sexuality (homo, hetero or anywhere in between) is not something to be correted, but should be accepted and celebrated as all differences amongst people shuold be. Variety truly is the spice of life. Vive la différence !!!!!!!
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby CO_RedRocker » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:00 pm

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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby Phoenix6570 » Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:37 am

^ I've had similar thoughts to yours before. I don't think you can say homosexuality is naturally occurring but say otherwise regarding pedophilia.The main issue though is pedophilia is wrong in my opinion. Those actions have tremendous negative effects to the kids that are subjected to it. This type of attraction may be uncontrollable, but its not equal with other sexuality. In heterosexual and homosexual encounters its usually on a fair field. What I mean is both parties know what they're getting into and are willing to go through with the act.

Pedophilia will never be like this and if one was to say it was a consensual act I would seriously doubt that. A child doesn't have the complete mental awareness to understand the act. They will be confused and frightened. Many will be mentally scarred and these acts will have an negative impact on their lives. When an older man or woman is preying on a child it is definitely bad.

I think its possible that pedophilia could be a naturally occurring trait but at the end of the day its wrong because of the damaging effects it has on the children involved.
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby CO_RedRocker » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:25 am

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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby Phoenix6570 » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:02 pm

I'm not going to say being gay is the easiest thing in the world but if I had to do it all again I would definitely be gay. I love men and thats never going to change; even if finding what I want is difficult. I agree that most of the issues with being gay come from inside the gay community. Many men are extremely picky and have rigid standards that few people can measure up to.

Being fem is just one example of the long list of expectations some men bring to the table. Ontop of that you have weight/size/ethnicity/dick size etc... The problem is too many people have an ideal version of their future partner and ignore anything that deviates from that idea. If more gay men were willing to take risks and experiment I bet many would find a worthy partner.

As for necrophilia and bestiality. I can't really apply the same arguments with necrophilia. I guess if someone truly desires to do that then w/e but I'm sure the family members would be in horror that their loved one is being used in such a way. I believe bestiality is wrong though. I think sex acts should go on between two consenting adults or individuals of like ages. The act causes physical pain to the animal and considering animals don't engage in sex for pleasure (except for a select few) they wouldn't want to participate in such an event.
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby nimby » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:32 pm

CO_RedRocker wrote:Honestly, does it have to get to the point where a lot of older gay men kill themselves off and leave suicide notes stating that it was the gay lifestyle and not greater society that led them to the final decision for the rest of the world to wake up to this?


You bring up some very good points, but I'm afraid very flawed.

Firstly, non-consentual sex (pedophilia, beastiality or necrophilia) is not about sexual pleasure, it is rape. And rape is about power and control, not pleasure. Homosexuality is about pleasure amongst consenting human adults. Apples and oranges friend.

Secondly, not all homosexuals are sad and depressed. If you ever bothered to set foot in a "gay ghetto", you'd see that. There are many happy people there. Mental illness affects the whole spectrum of society, not just homosexuals.

So far your posts are all assumptions. Maybe, just maybe the problem isn't with all other masc. gays, maybe it's your attitude. Would that be possible too?

As for the woman thing, good luck with that. No doubt you'll soon be posting an ad in Craig's List advertising yourself as a straight, married man looking for secret co*k on the side.

Seriously, dude, be very careful where you tread.
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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby CO_RedRocker » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:17 pm

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Re: Queer by choice?

Postby ispeaktexan » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:38 pm

Whoa! Slow down there, you are making some pretty obtuse statements.
Those are some very large generalizations you are spitting out.
That is what you may have seen in your experience, but you have to remember that not everyone is the same, there is much more diversity in this world than you believe.
If I were you I wouldn't generalize things so quickly.

I'm not sad at all, I stumbled upon this board by accident and am very glad I did.
In my experience it is the feminine homosexuals who seemingly go for the sexual relationships.
I am not saying that is always the case, but that is what I have seen in my experience.

I have found your statements to be fairly inaccurate at least half of them.
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