Woman Goes Undercover To Experience Life As A Man

Are all hairdressers fem boys? Are all construction workers macho? Explore stereotypes on these and other issues here.

Moderators: selective_soldier, Lesley R. Charles, charmcitywop

Woman Goes Undercover To Experience Life As A Man

Postby Smitty » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:48 pm

Woman Goes Undercover To Experience Life As A Man
18-Month Research Project

ABC News

Jan. 23 - Norah Vincent has lived as a man. She didn't undergo a sex change or radical hormone treatments. She simply went undercover. In an extraordinary feat of acting, disguise and guts, Vincent lived among men - as a man - for 18 months to see what life was like on the other side of the gender divide.


Link: Woman Goes Undercover To Experience Life As A Man
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." -- George W. Bush, in a CNN interview. 12-18-00
User avatar
Smitty
Member
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:18 pm
Location: Oregon Coast

Postby passleft » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:15 pm

i saw here this morning on one of the morning shows... very interesting.

to me it seemed like it was just something to do to get a book deal.

honestly all that she said was that she had a lot of stereotypes about what she thought she would find, and instead found that most men were normal... duh.

for example. she joined a bowling league and expected the guys to talk bad about women and to tell lots of dirty jokes and the typical junior-high humor. but instead she said they had intelligent conversations and talked nice about their wives...

wow. what a revelation.

i think the only option she changed was her own. :?
"So, other than that Mrs. Lincoln how did you like the play?"
User avatar
passleft
Member
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 11:26 pm
Location: Ewing, NJ

Postby BtonJay » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:37 am

passleft wrote:wow. what a revelation.

i think the only option she changed was her own. :?



Wow... maybe I should buy that book. :P You hit the nail on the head with that last line.
BiWM in Bloomington, IN. Masculine, smart, nice, funny... and that's just the start.
BtonJay
Member
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:43 pm
Location: Bloomington, IN

Postby Bramasole_iowa » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:44 am

Image
I've seen too many drag kings to be fooled here.
sidenote: I cant count how many times my boss and I have played "the tranny game" where she and I try to figure out if a customer is really a man or a woman.
***************
Hanging out in the Pacific Northwest.
User avatar
Bramasole_iowa
Member
 
Posts: 486
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:16 pm
Location: away

Postby Lesley R. Charles » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Funny thing is, my co-workers who know about my transgenderness, ask me to play the tranny game. Usually, I try not too. I now know all too well the pressure they are under to pass.
Come check me out on MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/lesleycharles
User avatar
Lesley R. Charles
Moderator
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:11 pm
Location: Greenville, SC

Postby Smitty » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:15 am

I haven't seen this woman on TV. I don't know anything about her other than what I read in the article. I think this story is interesting in a Black Like Me kind of way. Like Griffin, author of Black Like Me, the mind she changed first was her own. Turns out men, real men, straight men, presumably straight acting straight men aren't so bad afterall.

Also significant, she wasn't beaten to death ala Boys Don't Cry suggesting perhaps that homocide is not an inate masculine trait.
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." -- George W. Bush, in a CNN interview. 12-18-00
User avatar
Smitty
Member
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:18 pm
Location: Oregon Coast

Postby BlackmanXXX » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:16 pm

Well, that was interesting. I read the whole thing. They should have called this How the Other Half Lives. Anyhow, great thread.
http://people.lulu.com/users/index.php?fHomepage=496298

I need to engage in bisexual behavior on a massive scale. It cannot be corrected but I have no other way to fulfill my needs.
User avatar
BlackmanXXX
Member
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:05 pm
Location: Boston Common

Postby Ben » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:44 am

A Swedish journalist woman did that not too long ago. Had a hidden camera on her as she went from bar to bar to pick up women. She wasn't very successful.

Trouble is, she looked... not so attractive.
She has a very slim, female exterior. Totally works for her when in her natural element, but dressed up as a man, with a 5-o'clock-shadow and everything, she looked like a cancer convalescent.

Afterwards she claimed to now have a hint on how most men feel and the frustrations they have. Her message to women was that they should stop being so picky and also stop claiming that "nice" comes before looks.

I think she was spot on but for the wrong reasons. Really... I'd have backed away from that "guy" too, because something simply wasn't right with "him".
:lol:
Don't try to be a great man, just be a man...
User avatar
Ben
Member
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:23 am
Location: Indiana

Postby RedKen99 » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:47 am

passleft wrote:
for example. she joined a bowling league and expected the guys to talk bad about women and to tell lots of dirty jokes and the typical junior-high humor. but instead she said they had intelligent conversations and talked nice about their wives...

wow. what a revelation.


I know... Media always tryna label us! :rolleyes:
User avatar
RedKen99
Member
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:12 pm
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii

Postby Davy » Thu May 31, 2007 3:17 am

Not to resurrect a completely dead thread, but I just had some time to read this book and I couldn't put it down. It was very engrossing to say the least.

As Ned, she joined a bowling league and found that the guys highly praised their wives rather than talked bad about them.

Then she went on several dates with women and found that in a bar-room type setting, men are the ones who have to come up with the right pickup lines, do their song and dance, and basically try to impress the women. The women have all the power in that situation because they sit back, wait for men to do their thing, and then say either yes or no. Interesting that this is exactly the way it is in a gay bar, except that in that environment, men do both.

My favorite chapter was the visit to the monastery. She chose a monastery because it was the closest approximation to a prison/military type of environment where men are in close quarters and basically cut off from women and the outside world.

As a man, nothing she found really surprised me all that much. But it was very intriguing to see all of these unwritten rules about male behavior condensed into a book.

One thing I found quite interesting was that Norah is a butch lesbian. Yet in the company of men, Ned was seen as feminine and gay. Same personality, same mannerisms.

The only real criticism I have about Self Made Man was that all of her experiences (bowling team, strip club, monastery, sales job, mens retreat) were in a group type of setting where the men's competitive nature was at an extreme. She never explored how men interact with each other on a one-on-one basis. Group settings are not appropriate places to discuss feelings, etc. But I think most men do so when it's one-on-one. Anyway, it is a dynamic that is really missing from Norah's study and because of that, her picture is somewhat skewed.

But I highly recommend this book. I had alot of fun reading it.
User avatar
Davy
Member
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:36 pm
Location: Anchorage

Postby Alliano Kiniea » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:56 pm

see we're not so bad.
Image
Alliano Kiniea
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:42 pm
Location: Union Park

Re:

Postby qwertz » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:16 pm

Davy wrote:Not to resurrect a completely dead thread, but I just had some time to read this book and I couldn't put it down. It was very engrossing to say the least.

As Ned, she joined a bowling league and found that the guys highly praised their wives rather than talked bad about them.

Then she went on several dates with women and found that in a bar-room type setting, men are the ones who have to come up with the right pickup lines, do their song and dance, and basically try to impress the women. The women have all the power in that situation because they sit back, wait for men to do their thing, and then say either yes or no. Interesting that this is exactly the way it is in a gay bar, except that in that environment, men do both.

My favorite chapter was the visit to the monastery. She chose a monastery because it was the closest approximation to a prison/military type of environment where men are in close quarters and basically cut off from women and the outside world.

As a man, nothing she found really surprised me all that much. But it was very intriguing to see all of these unwritten rules about male behavior condensed into a book.

One thing I found quite interesting was that Norah is a butch lesbian. Yet in the company of men, Ned was seen as feminine and gay. Same personality, same mannerisms.

The only real criticism I have about Self Made Man was that all of her experiences (bowling team, strip club, monastery, sales job, mens retreat) were in a group type of setting where the men's competitive nature was at an extreme. She never explored how men interact with each other on a one-on-one basis. Group settings are not appropriate places to discuss feelings, etc. But I think most men do so when it's one-on-one. Anyway, it is a dynamic that is really missing from Norah's study and because of that, her picture is somewhat skewed.

But I highly recommend this book. I had alot of fun reading it.



I agree. A group has his own dynamics. One-to-one is completely different. I don't know anymore where I did read about a gay soccer player's story. He had a very good relation with all individual soccer team members, but not with the team as a group that was extremely homophobic as a whole.
qwertz
Member
 
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:58 pm


Return to Stereotypes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron