Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

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Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Cachasa » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:47 pm

Pride season is almost over. But lately I'm feeling as though it's lost. It just seems like that most of the big Pride parties in Toronto, Montreal, San Francisco, ect. are just that, parties. Taking a stand on issues and fighting for rights doesn't seem to be a part of Pride anymore. What does getting really drunk or high while doing a bunch or really dangerous designer drugs have to do with gay pride?

Why are nudists and fetishists and poly-people marching in a Gay Pride parade? Last I checked Pride was not about choice so why the hell would some BDSM daddy there? Not that a BDSM daddy is a bad person, or that BDSM is wrong, but it's not a sexual orientation or a gender orientation. It's a lifestyle choice. Who cares what a perons choices are?

The whole community seems to be lacking a moral center, other wise would a poly-person be there? Why would pubic sex acts, fake or real be done during the parade? What's wrong with judging people and saying, "I'm right and that behavior is wrong". That's what gay activists had to do in the old days. They saw that the we were being treated badly for being who we are so they fought to try and change it. Now it just seems like gay activism has turned into a relativistic non-issue movement, "there's no right or wrong so let's not judge anything. Let's do whatever the hell we want no matter what it is because judgeing and takeing a stand on an issue is bad".



Then there's also the Corperateization... The Pride Parade in my home town this year was called the "TD Canada Trust Pride Parade" TD is the Toronto Dominion Bank, It's one of our national banks. They were the major sponsor this year so the pride parade was renamed for them...

I probably sound like I'm ranting... :oops:
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby ispeaktexan » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:45 pm

I have never even been to a pride parade, and don't know if i would.
I really am not one for pride. Sounds bad. But i just don't fight it...i'm definately not an activist. I just want to live my life. And I don't think the whole world needs to know my personal life either.

I used to be different. But people change. I agree though...
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Schlodesss » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:33 am

I totally agree. The whole thing weirds me out just as much as a giant group of straight [or whoever] people would, going up the street in the same type of display in the name of Straight Pride. I can't take it seriously..

I actually watched a documentary on Harvey Milk the other night, what a sad story. That guy had some balls, and yeah the Gay Day marches seemed a lot different as did the crowds then.

For me, pride... is not hiding who I am and being myself, and being out [& not in your face out, but out..] and just letting people who never would have thought in a million years... that they have a friend, brother, cousin, race partner, mechanic, dirt bike riding buddy, etc.. etc.. who is just like they are... but wants to share a life with a man instead. And I have to say I think I have made a lot of people stand back, scratch their heads and at the very least think.. but 9 times out of 10 accept me and are surprised. I have had people actually tell me that had they not found out about me they would still have their old prejudices intact about homosexuals.

IMO we are going to make a difference in gaining acceptance one person at a time by just being who we are and existing in the open and in every day life. And I don't mean for one week out of each year in Toronto or elsehwere at a pride event in a march/pride festival then back into hiding, but every day....

I'm sure this will offend someone and it wasn't meant to. I just am not feeling the whole gay pride parade thing, and it's not because I am self loathing or any of that, I just don't feel like it's something I identify with, so I don't go..

Cachasa wrote:Pride season is almost over. But lately I'm feeling as though it's lost. It just seems like that most of the big Pride parties in Toronto, Montreal, San Francisco, ect. are just that, parties. Taking a stand on issues and fighting for rights doesn't seem to be a part of Pride anymore. What does getting really drunk or high while doing a bunch or really dangerous designer drugs have to do with gay pride?

Why are nudists and fetishists and poly-people marching in a Gay Pride parade? Last I checked Pride was not about choice so why the hell would some BDSM daddy there? Not that a BDSM daddy is a bad person, or that BDSM is wrong, but it's not a sexual orientation or a gender orientation. It's a lifestyle choice. Who cares what a perons choices are?

The whole community seems to be lacking a moral center, other wise would a poly-person be there? Why would pubic sex acts, fake or real be done during the parade? What's wrong with judging people and saying, "I'm right and that behavior is wrong". That's what gay activists had to do in the old days. They saw that the we were being treated badly for being who we are so they fought to try and change it. Now it just seems like gay activism has turned into a relativistic non-issue movement, "there's no right or wrong so let's not judge anything. Let's do whatever the hell we want no matter what it is because judgeing and takeing a stand on an issue is bad".



Then there's also the Corperateization... The Pride Parade in my home town this year was called the "TD Canada Trust Pride Parade" TD is the Toronto Dominion Bank, It's one of our national banks. They were the major sponsor this year so the pride parade was renamed for them...

I probably sound like I'm ranting... :oops:
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby ispeaktexan » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:10 am

Schlodesss wrote:
I'm sure this will offend someone and it wasn't meant to. I just am not feeling the whole gay pride parade thing, and it's not because I am self loathing or any of that, I just don't feel like it's something I identify with, so I don't go..



Exactly.
And it shouldn't offend anyone, we all have opinions here...
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby blackmet » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:27 pm

I dunno, I enjoy Pride, but I also am not sure how much it stands for either.

I'll go, because I really don't have any issue with spending a gorgeous summer day at a park surrounded by attractive guys, and it's fun to buy pins and stickers from booths to add to my collection, and pretend that I enjoy the music of Tiffany.

And, as I've gotten older, I've discovered that I really just don't care anymore about masculinity/effeminacy, or how most people present themselves. If you want to wear a leather thong, or dress in drag, or flaunt your transgenderedness...eh, whatever. I'm just going to wear my polo shirt, light up a smoke, and smirk. It doesn't have any affect on me, I don't think it has as much effect on the straights as everyone thinks, and it's not my job, much less my right, to have any say about it anyway.

That being said, Denver's was fairly politically active this year. Lots of voter registration, booths where people were signing petitions to get an amendment on the ballot legalizing gay marriage in 2010, and a lot of Universal Health Care activists dressed in nurses scrubs calling themselves "Fake Doctors for Real Reform."

It's not quite Harvey Milk Candelight Vigils and ACT UP protests, but those are probably not going to happen again for the duration of most of our lives. The people who did those things were Silent and Boomer gen people, most of whom are now either dead (AIDS ravaged the gay community of the generation) or burned out. Gen X HATES street protest and idealism, and is more likely to try to wind rights increases thru via courts, legislation, and appeals to increasing freedoms. Milenials? They just organize, petition, ballot and vote.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Earl Butz » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:38 am

I always thought they were stupid, but I guess they used to serve a purpose. It was one day for the majority to be gay, not the other way around. But I agree that walking down the street in a jock strap just makes us all look like freaks. And does more harm than good.

Just my two cents. :?
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby nimby » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:12 am

Cachaca wrote:Pride season is almost over. But lately I'm feeling as though it's lost. It just seems like that most of the big Pride parties in Toronto, Montreal, San Francisco, etc. are just that, parties. Taking a stand on issues and fighting for rights doesn't seem to be a part of Pride anymore. What does getting really drunk or high while doing a bunch or really dangerous designer drugs have to do with gay pride?

Why are nudists and fetishists and poly-people marching in a Gay Pride parade? Last I checked Pride was not about choice so why the hell would some BDSM daddy there? Not that a BDSM daddy is a bad person, or that BDSM is wrong, but it's not a sexual orientation or a gender orientation. It's a lifestyle choice. Who cares what a person choices are?

The whole community seems to be lacking a moral center, other wise would a poly-person be there? Why would pubic sex acts, fake or real be done during the parade? What's wrong with judging people and saying, "I'm right and that behavior is wrong". That's what gay activists had to do in the old days. They saw that the we were being treated badly for being who we are so they fought to try and change it. Now it just seems like gay activism has turned into a relativistic non-issue movement, "there's no right or wrong so let's not judge anything. Let's do whatever the hell we want no matter what it is because judgeing and taking a stand on an issue is bad".



Then there's also the Corporatization... The Pride Parade in my home town this year was called the "TD Canada Trust Pride Parade" TD is the Toronto Dominion Bank, It's one of our national banks. They were the major sponsor this year so the pride parade was renamed for them...

I probably sound like I'm ranting... :oops:


No offense at all. But I like the pride festivities. It has a sense of community acceptance and celebration of diversity to it. And I guess that's what it's all about, diversity.

Now I don't know what it's like where you live, but here in Toronto, Gays are pretty much accepted everywhere as normal, functioning members of our community. Last week I was down at the Church street community centre and was browsing their ad board. I was happily surprised to see a recruitment ad from the Toronto Police Services encouraging homosexuals to apply for constable positions. And the Police did have representation in the parade. The week before that I saw a banner hanging off the Toronto Children's Aid office encouraging gays to volunteer, become foster parents and/or adopt. And I thought that was so profound. The right that gays have here appear to be just like anyone else's. And that makes me so happy. I wonder if these would have come if it wasn't for the pride events. Yes, I know that corporate sponsorship sucks, but TD did it well and tastefully. Besides, being a past employee of TD for many years, I KNOW that TD has a very significant percentage of homosexual employees. I couldn't think of a better corporate sponsor. As for the Fetishists, Poly- people and BDSM crowd being there, well all these groups have HUGE numbers in
gay members, so why not? I think the tide is turning to diversity celebration instead of gay rights cause, here anyway, that battle is won.

As for your feelings of morale issues and judgement, well morals are changing in ALL segments of society, not just the gay community. Just take a look around you. You can watch a movie where a man can kill 100 guys an hour, yet you can't watch two men fall in love on the big screen. What does that say about Morales? Or that the only worthy gays are the under 30 pretty ones. That makes no sense to me at all, and frankly scares the crap out of me. And one thing I've realized is that there is discrimination in the gay community, but that is amongst ourselves. Ageism, beauty, money, bisexuality, trans gendered and masculinity are some divisive issues I've seen in the scene. There is still work to do, but a lot of it has to start within ourselves.

Division is NOT the answer.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Schlodesss » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:48 pm

nimby wrote:
No offense at all. But I like the pride festivities. It has a sense of community acceptance and celebration of diversity to it. And I guess that's what it's all about, diversity.

Now I don't know what it's like where you live, but here in Toronto, Gays are pretty much accepted everywhere as normal, functioning members of our community. Last week I was down at the Church street community centre and was browsing their ad board. I was happily surprised to see a recruitment ad from the Toronto Police Services encouraging homosexuals to apply for constable positions. And the Police did have representation in the parade. The week before that I saw a banner hanging off the Toronto Children's Aid office encouraging gays to volunteer, become foster parents and/or adopt. And I thought that was so profound. The right that gays have here appear to be just like anyone else's. And that makes me so happy. I wonder if these would have come if it wasn't for the pride events. Yes, I know that corporate sponsorship sucks, but TD did it well and tastefully. Besides, being a past employee of TD for many years, I KNOW that TD has a very significant percentage of homosexual employees. I couldn't think of a better corporate sponsor. As for the Fetishists, Poly- people and BDSM crowd being there, well all these groups have HUGE numbers in
gay members, so why not? I think the tide is turning to diversity celebration instead of gay rights cause, here anyway, that battle is won.

As for your feelings of morale issues and judgement, well morals are changing in ALL segments of society, not just the gay community. Just take a look around you. You can watch a movie where a man can kill 100 guys an hour, yet you can't watch two men fall in love on the big screen. What does that say about Morales? Or that the only worthy gays are the under 30 pretty ones. That makes no sense to me at all, and frankly scares the crap out of me. And one thing I've realized is that there is discrimination in the gay community, but that is amongst ourselves. Ageism, beauty, money, bisexuality, trans gendered and masculinity are some divisive issues I've seen in the scene. There is still work to do, but a lot of it has to start within ourselves.

Division is NOT the answer.


Who says the only worthy or pretty gays are under 30? They need glasses then, or a few good website links... Men just start to get "nice" around 40... :wink:

I don't know if anyone wants anything divided, and I agree there are problems and prejudice with in the 'community'. All my point was, is I guess if I am going to march in the name of something [with as important a meaning as this has to me] then I am going to take it a bit more seriously... instead of coming out as the spandex enormity loll...

I mean.. go 'party' afterwards into the wee hours or whatever... I just think some of the stuff that goes on should be toned down.. Not because it's Gays but because I don't really wanna see any group of people... actually *I* myself am kinda like Keith I could care less really, I don't go, but i guess to promote this as an event that a family or kids can go to [everyone's related to someone young.. & young people do go to these things] the main event should be kept with that in mind. That goes if you are straight, gay, whatever..

Nimby you are right, some of the sh*t you see on TV, and yet they still... refuse to make two average men falling in love a common thing... BrokeBack was a good attempt.. but..

Oh well hurry up 2012.. If the Mayans were wrong I am building a time machine to go kick some ass.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Earl Butz » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:40 pm

It's all about $$$$. That's why there are no mass market gay romance movies.

Killing sells. :roll:
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby crankycurmudgeon » Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:04 am

^ Of course Earl, I imagine that you're just typing away all winter up there inthe frozen north and that this will end as soon as your publisher finishes with the cover design. You Nora Robert you!
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Cachasa » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:38 am

Should we be celebrating diversity though? "Celebrating diversity" in this context means accepting other people's choices. That's a problem. The more that we accept other people's choices the more that we diminish our stand on issues. I'd rather that we take a position on something instead of "celebrating diversity" and taking a stand on nothing. Not everything is acceptable. Sticking to a moral stance regardless of the fact that other people are "different" or in spite of what other problems there are in the rest of society is what morality is all about. Also, it's only though conflict of ideologies and morals that any kind progress can be made.


BDSM, fetishism, those choices are fine, but they're choices, so the public doesn't need to see them. Polyamory and drug use are illegal and dangerous but by "celebrating diversity" we accept them.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby nimby » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:44 am

To many people, their fetish is not a choice, it's what turns them on sexually. Just like most today believe homosexuality is not a choice, it's what turns them on sexually. And not to long ago homosexuality was considered a bizarre fetish. Is your preference for men a choice? Do we need it see it?

As for morals, they are a funny thing. Morals in a society are very fluid and are constantly changing, much like the swing of a pendulum, always moving back and forth over time. As an example, see pederasty. This is still practiced in some areas today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty

Yes, conflict is healthy for a society, because nothing can be achieved without it. Even on it's most basic level it is a necessity. Atomic friction is the basis for everything you see and touch. But the conflict need not be explosive, just constant in order to affect change. But you can't pull up the drawbridge once your rights are achieved. That causes the basis for every type of discrimination and hate that exists on out planet. Remeber, we are all one people.

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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby JW » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:28 pm

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Last edited by JW on Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby PhillyAgenda » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:03 pm

Schlodesss wrote:For me, pride... is not hiding who I am and being myself, and being out [& not in your face out, but out..] and just letting people who never would have thought in a million years... that they have a friend, brother, cousin, race partner, mechanic, dirt bike riding buddy, etc.. etc.. who is just like they are... but wants to share a life with a man instead. And I have to say I think I have made a lot of people stand back, scratch their heads and at the very least think.. but 9 times out of 10 accept me and are surprised. I have had people actually tell me that had they not found out about me they would still have their old prejudices intact about homosexuals.

I get it, I pretty much feel the same way about it too. Never been to a pride parade and don't have much interest in going to one. And I don't know how many attitudes I've changed, maybe a few, maybe more (Probably my mom who I distinctly heard one time saying being gay was wrong because "it's in the Bible" or something ridiculous like that, I assume she discovered it's not that simple). I just think it's a shame that it takes someone like a close friend or family member telling them they're gay to make someone question their hateful attitudes.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby ispeaktexan » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:30 pm

Not interested in going to them...
I do in fact think that pride parades convey bad images to other folks. But that's just my thoughts.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby nimby » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:42 pm

That's cause someone new on here is revolted by age differences and screams "pervert" at every chance he gets. Hmmm, I wonder who? :roll:
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby ispeaktexan » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:23 pm

nimby wrote:That's cause someone new on here is revolted by age differences and screams "pervert" at every chance he gets. Hmmm, I wonder who? :roll:


lol i wonder as well.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby nimby » Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:51 pm

LOL!!! Just goes to show you don't have a clue about this place. :lol:
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Schlodesss » Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:17 am

Haha, search my username on here for the past few years and see what pics i have posted, I kill hunks threads and eat them for lunch lol Wendel Clark [of the Leafs yes] smack in the middle of everything esle hahah!

BurgosPRman wrote:
Schlodesss wrote:Who says the only worthy or pretty gays are under 30? They need glasses then, or a few good website links... Men just start to get "nice" around 40... :



The interesting thing about this is the hypocrisy. You hear people around here complaining about ageism and lookism in our community, but check out the HUNKS section. Nobody posts pics of anyone BUT pretty young things that look like porn stars and or strippers. LOL
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby selective_soldier » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:09 am

BurgosPRman wrote:'The interesting thing about this is the hypocrisy. You hear people around here complaining about ageism and lookism in our community, but check out the HUNKS section. Nobody posts pics of anyone BUT pretty young things that look like porn stars and or strippers. LOL


I’ll have to say I’m the biggest hypocrite of this. :oops: A while back I was the biggest complainers about the Average Guy” not being posted in the hunks section, then I go & post the latest hot stud model. I honestly do it for fodder when board viewership goes down, knowing dam well I wouldn’t hook-up with a pretty boy. :roll:

Yet , I listen as a sounding board, or an eaves dropper at times to a good many gay men who are sincerely good guys to date, & are met to the demise of the shallowness of “some” gay men.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby nimby » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:35 am

Besides, I see regular guys all the time, day in and day out. What's wrong with a little eye candy?
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Ben » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:05 pm

Cachasa wrote:Pride season is almost over. But lately I'm feeling as though it's lost. It just seems like that most of the big Pride parties in Toronto, Montreal, San Francisco, ect. are just that, parties. Taking a stand on issues and fighting for rights doesn't seem to be a part of Pride anymore. What does getting really drunk or high while doing a bunch or really dangerous designer drugs have to do with gay pride?

Why are nudists and fetishists and poly-people marching in a Gay Pride parade? Last I checked Pride was not about choice so why the hell would some BDSM daddy there? Not that a BDSM daddy is a bad person, or that BDSM is wrong, but it's not a sexual orientation or a gender orientation. It's a lifestyle choice. Who cares what a perons choices are?

The whole community seems to be lacking a moral center, other wise would a poly-person be there? Why would pubic sex acts, fake or real be done during the parade? What's wrong with judging people and saying, "I'm right and that behavior is wrong". That's what gay activists had to do in the old days. They saw that the we were being treated badly for being who we are so they fought to try and change it. Now it just seems like gay activism has turned into a relativistic non-issue movement, "there's no right or wrong so let's not judge anything. Let's do whatever the hell we want no matter what it is because judgeing and takeing a stand on an issue is bad".



Then there's also the Corperateization... The Pride Parade in my home town this year was called the "TD Canada Trust Pride Parade" TD is the Toronto Dominion Bank, It's one of our national banks. They were the major sponsor this year so the pride parade was renamed for them...

I probably sound like I'm ranting... :oops:



I think you just became my personal hero of the day. :)
I've been saying this for years. Pride parades and such spectacles are huge stumbling blocks that can only be detrimental to the fight for equal right and respect for all. You don't see any other minority fight for their political battles wearing only thong and feather-boas.

I think if Pride festivals were ever effective, that time is long over. The awareness is now created. However, it is being continuously botched because the trend in the parades is "the more screeching outrageous the better". HOWEVER, this gets down to the awkward part: even though I personally cringe at such behavior, I can't deny these people the right to express themselves and trying to create a world with a spot reserved for them. Not without losing my leg to stand on. All I can do is to distance myself from them. Just like I distance myself from nudists, alcoholics, religious zealots, etc etc etc

My attitude is this; Pride, or the people participating in it do not represent me. I don't belong to their crowd or minority.
Making other people aware of this fact is the best way to fight prejudice and stereotyping, and to gain basic human respect. Everyone I have come out to have commended me for this stance, so I believe it's working.

The people making fools out of themselves at Pride still have... lots... of work to do.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Lesley R. Charles » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:36 am

Ben, I too agree with you. It is so true that the flamboyant at the Pride events represent a small majority of the gay population. Unfortunately, they are highly visible and so the general population assumes the rest of us in the gay and transgender community must be like that. Also it so good to have your voice back here.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby nimby » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:07 am

A small majority? How is that even possible? And no offense, but I find it amusing that you're chastizing others for their flamboyance while I see you dressed here as Princess Di. It just goes to prove my point that their will never be any coesion in the LGBTQ community until we can all unite and support eachother in our differences (can you tell I'm a big fan of pride events ?).
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Lesley R. Charles » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:23 am

Yes, I had my photo done as Princess Di. I am also transgendered, but when I am dressed as a boy, nobody really knows, they think I am straight. Yes, I like to dress in women's clothes, because I know I was born the wrong sex, but I choose to look normal. And yes, I have had the weird stares all my life because I struggle to deal with my gender issues, but I have also tried to get people to respect me and to try and understand me and not view me as a freak.
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