Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby nimby » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:00 am

Not too long ago I had absolutely no exposure/knowledge of trans people and their issues at all. I too wondered what must be going through their heads to make them act like that. Then one day, at a pride event, I met Enza Anderson, a trans gendered spokes person and a political hopeful. I had the best conversation with her and found out what she and other trans people are all about, their struggles and issues. I found her to be extremely intelligent and well versed in the current municipal politics, and we shared a lot of similar views. And she soothed any misconceptions I had about trans people. I was so impressed with her. And just recently, in a support group I go to, I had the opportunity to become friends with another trans person, and so I have. Again a very nice person, no more messed up than any of us attending the support group. I thank my initial chat with Enza for making me open up and become more accepting of others and their personal issues. And When Enza runs for political office, she always gets my vote,and I proudly tell everyone I know who I'm voting for and why. I publicly support a trans politician, not because she is trans, but I feel that she truly is the best person for the job.

But my point is that I met her at a Pride event, as did many others. If she wasn't there, supporting the community she identifies with best, there would be a lot less educated people out there. That's why I so enjoy pride events, because it brings together many different aspects of fringe communities. Initially Pride wasn't for the massess, it was by the gays and for the gays. Main stream was allowed to watch if they wanted, but they weren't the target audience. Well, now that has changed. With more than a million people attending the pride Parade alone in Toronto, many more are becoming acclimatized to alternative choices, and thus becoming much more accepted. Just look at the strides gay rights have made in Canada. I think that alone speaks for itself. I have NEVER ever heard anyone refer to a trans, a gay or a lesbian as a freak in years now, let alone at a pride event. And I think that's wonderful.
Last edited by nimby on Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Lesley R. Charles » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:12 am

That is wonderful, but the freak mentality is still there. When I am dressed in public it is the fear of being read and ridiculed that haunts me. Yet, there are some people that can deal with it honestly.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Cachasa » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:46 am

nimby wrote:A small majority? How is that even possible? And no offense, but I find it amusing that you're chastizing others for their flamboyance while I see you dressed here as Princess Di. It just goes to prove my point that their will never be any coesion in the LGBTQ community until we can all unite and support eachother in our differences (can you tell I'm a big fan of pride events ?).


But the issue here is "coehsion" or rather complacency. Why should I embrace or tolerate a pride event that creates and promotes an atmosphere of dangerious sex and dnagerious drug use?
I myself don't care if there are a bunch of flamboyant queens or rageing bull dykes walking around. Or trans people makeing a statement. All of that is fine.

I am takeing issue with all of the GLBTQ people who are using pride as an excuse to do designer drugs, engage in public sex acts or trying spread the false idea that polyamorious relationships are safe and healthy. These are choices that I don't accept and that the majority of Canadians shouldn't either. And to co-opt these fringe groups into pride is wrong becasue Pride should not be about people's choices. GLBT people don't choose to be the way we are.

Why should I accept other people when their choices are wrong and their values run in opposition to mine?
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Ben » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:58 pm

Cachasa wrote:
nimby wrote:A small majority? How is that even possible? And no offense, but I find it amusing that you're chastizing others for their flamboyance while I see you dressed here as Princess Di. It just goes to prove my point that their will never be any coesion in the LGBTQ community until we can all unite and support eachother in our differences (can you tell I'm a big fan of pride events ?).


But the issue here is "coehsion" or rather complacency. Why should I embrace or tolerate a pride event that creates and promotes an atmosphere of dangerious sex and dnagerious drug use?
I myself don't care if there are a bunch of flamboyant queens or rageing bull dykes walking around. Or trans people makeing a statement. All of that is fine.

I am takeing issue with all of the GLBTQ people who are using pride as an excuse to do designer drugs, engage in public sex acts or trying spread the false idea that polyamorious relationships are safe and healthy. These are choices that I don't accept and that the majority of Canadians shouldn't either. And to co-opt these fringe groups into pride is wrong becasue Pride should not be about people's choices. GLBT people don't choose to be the way we are.

Why should I accept other people when their choices are wrong and their values run in opposition to mine?



I think all the issues you bring up adhere to what Pride has become - more of a freak party (under the more noble guise of a "public celebration of diversity) rather than the political manifestation it was meant to be.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby ispeaktexan » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:16 am

Ben wrote:

I think all the issues you bring up adhere to what Pride has become - more of a freak party (under the more noble guise of a "public celebration of diversity) rather than the political manifestation it was meant to be.


Exactly my thoughts.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby exairman » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:30 pm

I find that the events are now more like 20% education 80% party opportunity. There is still that educational aspect, but those that could use the learning the most, are the ones that are most turned off by the wilder excesses. I also think that drag queens are the biggest roadblock for transexuals. Most people don't know the difference, and that is scary for the transexuals out there, since drag queens are the most visible. If you delve deeper into the whole transgender umbrella, you find that there are a myriad of reasons that people do it, but it seems to me that drag performing (which seems more of a mockery of femininity, than expression of it), is the one with real visibility, and it hurts the others. My view might be misguided, if it is let me know. I am decent enough to admit when I am wrong, and I could be wrong on this.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby nimby » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:28 am

Cachasa wrote:Why should I accept other people when their choices are wrong and their values run in opposition to mine?

That's exactly the reasoning for all the discrimination, racism and injustice through out history and all around the world. Nice. :shock:
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby mijopaalmc » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:40 pm

If you feel underrepresented in the "gay community", how does avoiding the very public representation of the community help you to feel represented?
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby rob650 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:15 pm

My attitude is this; Pride, or the people participating in it do not represent me. I don't belong to their crowd or minority.
Making other people aware of this fact is the best way to fight prejudice and stereotyping, and to gain basic human respect. Everyone I have come out to have commended me for this stance, so I believe it's working.


Right On, Ben. None of my gay friends understand why I duck out of going to pride parade in San Francisco every year. Whatever purpose it used to have has been corrupted or mutated into something else entirely, I don't know what. An advertising opportunity, followed by a flatbed truck loaded with greased up go-go boys. There's lots of HOT, but i'm not seeing a lot of Pride...

I'll continue to "celebrate" on that weekend the same way every year - 3 day motorcycle ride. Adios muchachos.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby mijopaalmc » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:49 pm

rob650 wrote:
My attitude is this; Pride, or the people participating in it do not represent me. I don't belong to their crowd or minority.
Making other people aware of this fact is the best way to fight prejudice and stereotyping, and to gain basic human respect. Everyone I have come out to have commended me for this stance, so I believe it's working.


Right On, Ben. None of my gay friends understand why I duck out of going to pride parade in San Francisco every year. Whatever purpose it used to have has been corrupted or mutated into something else entirely, I don't know what. An advertising opportunity, followed by a flatbed truck loaded with greased up go-go boys. There's lots of HOT, but i'm not seeing a lot of Pride...


This has always struck me as a strange sentiment, because those who would hearken back to the Good-Ol'-Days-of-Pride(TM) seem not to grasp the history of the gay pride movement. The reason most gay prides event are in June is because they commemorate the Stonewall Riots, which have come to represent the freedom to live one's life as one sees fit without intrusion from the government. So I'm a little confused as to how "letting your freak flag fly high" is not in lock-step with the original spirit of pride.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby Earl Butz » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:01 pm

I don't want people to think we are freaks. How is that progress? The nudist lobby has latched on to us, for their own dumb reasons. Well it's a sexual pervert parade, so hey let's everyone in. Uh, get your own parade you nutbars. :roll:

btw I love nudity, just not in public in front of kids and grannies :mrgreen:
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby mijopaalmc » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:42 pm

Earl Butz wrote:I don't want people to think we are freaks. How is that progress? The nudist lobby has latched on to us, for their own dumb reasons. Well it's a sexual pervert parade, so hey let's everyone in. Uh, get your own parade you nutbars. :roll:

btw I love nudity, just not in public in front of kids and grannies :mrgreen:


I think that there is a problem with pride in that not everybody who goes to watch is really aware that , beneath all the glamor, glitz, and pageantry, pride is about feeling comfortable enough about with one's sexuality to not hide it away from public view. Now, I agree that public sex and nudity are extreme forms of expression of one's sexuality, but what I am not really clear on is where everyone draws the line here.

One poster said "[y]ou don't see any other minority fight for their political battles wearing only thong and feather-boas". To me, this misses the point, because most likely "no other minority" is fighting for rights that it has been denied based on sexuality and gender identity, the kinds of categories that can be meaningfully represented by thongs and feather boas. Moreover, it seems to ignore that the thong-and-feather-boa crowd were the ones who were involved in the Stonewall Riots and were therefore who started the contemporary gay rights movement. So I still don't see why pride has necessarily lost its way , if it was loud a flamboyant in the beginning.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby buccoman » Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:22 am

Chicago Pride this year included Brent Sopel of the Blackhawks, his wife and four kids, and the friggin' Stanley Cup! Also, baseball hall of fameer, and Cubs' legend Ernie Banks. That is about as mainstream as it gets.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby mijopaalmc » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:25 pm

buccoman wrote:Chicago Pride this year included Brent Sopel of the Blackhawks, his wife and four kids, and the friggin' Stanley Cup! Also, baseball hall of fameer, and Cubs' legend Ernie Banks. That is about as mainstream as it gets.


Maybe that woudl be a better example of how pride has lost its way: it is more about assimilation than about being accepted as we are.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby butch » Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:50 am

Let's face it... "Gay Pride" was born before most young people today were even born. So evolution must take its toll and "Gay Pride" must adjust to the times.

No matter how the parades become structured, they still raise awareness of the GLBT community and that can't be bad. And everyone likes a good party. And no matter how politically incorrect they may seem to be, it gives encouragement to those gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered peoples of countries where repression is still very severe... think Egypt, or Saudi Arabia yadda yadda. Those folks need to know that they're being ridiculous in persecuting people because of their sexual preferences.

So, if Pride has become yet another commercial activity, it's not all bad... or as a previous Vancouver Mayor was often quoted as saying "any publicity is good publicity". Worked for him... we knew him affectionately, or not, as "Tom Terrific". A real right wing dingbat.
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Re: Has Gay Pride lost it's way?

Postby nimby » Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:48 pm

For some reason, I would bet $$ to donuts that the majority of those who oppose gay pride parades and festivities are the same ones who are still mostly in the closet. Note I said the majority, not all. :wink:
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Gay "Pride"

Postby Learning » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:12 pm

People have a lot of disagreement about what should be associated with the word gay. Also, gay pride hasn't been clear about what's meant by "pride." How would someone determine whether an action has shown "pride"?

Homophobes want gay people to be submissive, closeted, and ashamed. Acting with pride would be the opposite of acting ashamed and like someone with low status. This video says a lot about what goes into acting with pride, showing self-respect, and having status.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuDTZJWb ... eature=sub
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