What to do about "Sissyphobia"

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What to do about "Sissyphobia"

Postby Learning » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:46 am

Sissyphobia differs from homophobia because sissyphobia focuses on negative thoughts and feelings related to effeminacy. Sissyphobia seems harder to challenge than homophobia because someone's preferences in personal style seem like a matter of taste.

Sometimes, gays who act to fit the stereotypes are funny. Still, I feel more comfortable around straight guys and around masculine gay guys than around gays who fit the stereotype. I would rather be manly myself and find effeminacy to be a turn off.

If my preference for manliness in guys is somehow wrong, what are the arguments against sissyphobia? What makes being effeminate something good?
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Postby Odeh » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:09 am

The only "argument" is the Western cultural one that femininity in men is
bad...a cultural value preference..
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Sissyphobia v. Homophobia

Postby Learning » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:59 pm

Today, a high school student was talking about another gay student and said, "I don't have a problem if someone is gay, but I don't like when guys act like girls."

What, if anything, can be said to counter concerns about effeminacy? How does someone become more comfortable with effeminacy? Is there any damage to anyone else when boys give away their power by acting more like girls?
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Postby Phoenix6570 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:56 pm

If you're effeminate the only real way to counter it is by being secure in oneself. I believe if you're confidant then no matter what people say it won't bother you as bad as it could. One can become more comfortable with effeminacy by hanging out with effeminate people. Over time you see past the effeminacy and recognize the person by who they really are.

As far as damage going to anyone else I would say no. The only superficial loss of power would go to the boy who willingly gives it up. Although I believe they would term it as gaining power since they are becoming the person they want to be.
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Arguments about Sissyphobia

Postby Learning » Sun May 03, 2009 11:25 am

Phoenix, your ideas about developing confidence and hanging out with effeminate people would help deal with the personal taste issues (i.e. "Ugh. I'm not like that, am I?").

At some point, sissyphobia goes beyond being a personal taste issue and becomes discrimination. Your point about effeminacy not damaging others looks like a good beginning for arguing against unfair, irrational discriminations.
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Postby douglassnow » Sun May 10, 2009 11:37 pm

I may be sorry I said this--but the one who has the best handle on this, and is least judgemental about male effeminacy, is our old nemesis 'Masculinity.' He's always saying "Respect the Feminine Male!" and the brutality of Occidental sissyphobia seems to strike him as little less than sacrilegious. That brings up the question of what a sissy's natural "religious" function might be--but that it is at least, somehow, spiritual is an idea that just won't go away. These feminine males do things that mere masculine men and feminine women simply can't: As grade school teachers, nurses, care-givers, beauticians, hairdressers, dress-designers, they're inimitable and irreplaceable. Particularly as nurses, in the last couple of decades their influence has been revolutionary. In addition to being faster and more efficient, and paradoxically more compassionate, male nurses have largely taken over the administration of nursing services; because, as female nurses note with some bitterness, (male) doctors tend implicitly to trust them and much prefer to work with them.
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Takes All Kinds

Postby Learning » Mon May 11, 2009 5:41 pm

Ok, I gues we could say, "it takes all kinds."

Your comments imply that behaviors have consequences and that those behaviors may or may not be effective in certain contexts. The underlying idea of evaluation may make some uncomfortable. But your approach leads to more thoughtful evaluation and is easier to defend than demanding that no one's actions ever be evaluated.
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Postby michaelk69 » Tue May 12, 2009 1:27 am

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Last edited by michaelk69 on Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby foxeyes2 » Tue May 12, 2009 6:48 am

^ Bravo and nothing can say it better.
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Postby nimby » Tue May 12, 2009 11:21 am

Ditto.
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Any more to add?

Postby Learning » Tue May 12, 2009 5:37 pm

Thank you Michaelk69 for your time and honesty in making your thoughtful reply.

Would you be willing to say more about what led to developing the confidence, security, and self-acceptance you talked about? What changed in your thinking?
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Postby michaelk69 » Wed May 13, 2009 2:08 am

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Postby foxeyes2 » Wed May 13, 2009 6:36 am

You're a vegetarian? How could you do that?! LOL!
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Postby buccoman » Wed May 13, 2009 8:27 am

^^ The story of your life, although so "normal", is really pretty remarkable, Michael, imho...
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Postby michaelk69 » Wed May 13, 2009 9:00 am

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Last edited by michaelk69 on Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby buccoman » Wed May 13, 2009 3:45 pm

michaelk69 wrote:Aww, well, thanks. I mean, that was a compliment, right? lol . . .

It has been, and it hasn't been . . . it's been remarkable for its *lack* of drama and strife, I guess . . . but it's not like I've cured cancer or won a Nobel Prize or anything, lol . ..


A compliment by all means, man....What's remarkable to me is that you met your partner 20 years ago (as a first love), have stayed together, and you're gay. Don't think many fall into that category. I hope it becomes more normal, but until it does, it's remarkable.
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Postby furface » Wed May 13, 2009 4:18 pm

Bucco: There are far more of those long term relationships than you realize. We've had a few pushing 30 years here over the years. There are several here now who've been together between 5 and 15 years.

I was in a committed, monogamous relationship for 10 years (and sure I would still be today) until Brad was killed riding his beloved Harley ElectaGlide in WV. I'm currently in a similar relationship for over 5 years and fully expect to be in it till my end; with any luck at all many years from now.

Part of our 'invisibility' is, IMHO, because the public face of gaiety is youth obsessed and sowing their wild oats. A fair number of our brothers see sex more as a recreational activity like bowling than an expression of love and commitment twixt partners. Couples just going about their lives just aren't exciting - all the mundane activities of daily life: laundry, mortgage, pets, sometimes kids, lawn work, etc. And many of us don't advertise our lives any more than straights do.
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Getting Comfortable with Gay

Postby Learning » Wed May 13, 2009 8:02 pm

Michaelk69, it looks like you and your partner have done well together and that your long term relationship has helped you get comfortable with being gay. Also, getting comfortable with being gay was helpful in getting comfortable with effeminacy.

You did mention that you "wouldn't necessarily have sex with any of them [femmy guys]." How did you settle in your mind that you are different from them? If you heard someone complain about them, what could you say?
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Postby michaelk69 » Thu May 14, 2009 4:53 am

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Last edited by michaelk69 on Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby olywaguy » Thu May 14, 2009 10:14 am

michaelk69 wrote: . .. but I am certainly not ashamed or embarrassed by it. Like, really. Not at all. As in, if someone asks if I am married, I really am quite happy to say, no, I'm gay actually.


Michael, but you are married.
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Postby olywaguy » Thu May 14, 2009 10:15 am

Michael,

Thank you so much for telling your story as it provides a lot of insight into how you developed into the man you are today.

You've certainly given me a lot to think about.
Carlos

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Postby michaelk69 » Thu May 14, 2009 10:54 am

olywaguy wrote:Michael, but you are married.



lol, yeah, but you know what I mean, heh hehe
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Wide Range of Views

Postby Learning » Thu May 14, 2009 5:26 pm

Thank you again for you thoughts, Michael. You're giving a fairly good idea where you stand on effeminacy. You seem to appreciate "straight acting" guys but not be overly concerned about those who aren't "straight acting."

At one extreme on the issue of effeminacy are people like Angelo Pezzote who seems skeptical of masculinity. He notes destructive masculine tendencies and seems to think of welcoming effeminacy as a necessary part of being gay.

http://www.askangelo.com/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=36

And at another extreme are the g0ys who think of effeminacy as a caricature of femininity that denies the ability of men to appreciate each other's masculinity, keeps "straight acting" people in the closet, and lowers public opinion of gay people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A6EiNRRrPw
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"Straight Acting" Discussions in Media

Postby Learning » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:48 pm

Mathieu Chantelois from "So Gay TV" did a show about effeminacy, attraction, discrimination, origins of communication style, acting, and stereotypes. Here is a clip from the show which includes interviews of Peter Paige and Randy Harrisonfrom "Queer as Folk."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61a8zib6 ... -fresh+div
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Re: What to do about "Sissyphobia"

Postby exairman » Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:04 pm

Some might say that sissyphobia is the root of homophobia. There is a cultural ideal that men are to uphold, one of them is "topping". If you look an anti-gay social mores of the past, the guy on top was not the one looked down on. Taking the female role of "bottoming" was the part that was looked down on. It was believed that they had abondoned the male ideal of sticking their penises in things. The victors in battle sometimes raped the routed enemy in a display of dominance to demoralize the defeated (aliteration unitended), so being penetrated was being submissive, which is the role of females. Until the Abrahamic religions got involved, there was no shame in being "on top". Once Christianity got involved all of the vitrol for receptive partners got put on all gay men, and the rest is a matter of inquisitor's records. The idea is that a man should be strong and dominant at all times, submission is not manly in this school of thought, and by not living up to this, sissys threaten everyman's security in what a man is, and thus become the target of hate and marginalization, because that is how straight men have always acted at percieved threats to their masculinity. Even if you think this is wrong it is heavily socialized into us at a young age. In elementary school, being called a sissy is enough to get the crap beat out of you. This is a learned, imprinted view since the impetus in early youth is to fit in (at least for most of us). And the root of sissyphobia is most likely sexism, since women are inferior, obviously taking on their mannerisms makes you inferior.

Am I way off base? Thoughts, critiques, death threats?
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