Jealousy of straight guys

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Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Ashpenaz » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:29 am

One of the biggest problems I have in coming out in middle age is the extreme jealousy I have of my straight friends who were able to explore their sexuality without shame or consequence when they were in their teens and 20s. When I was that age, and I was starting to awaken sexually, I felt nothing but pure shame and guilt about the fact I wanted to have sex with men. And this wasn't because I was in a repressive family--when I talked to my Mom, she wasn't thrilled, but she wasn't angry. She said, "Being gay is such a sad life." :(

My best friend was gay. His way of being sexual was to go to Main Street, stand on the corner, and get into cars with older guys who drove by. I remember that we read passages from John Rechy's Numbers while getting drunk. We also listened to David Bowie and Lou Reed. This was fun, but terrifying, and I never wanted to be gay in that way, so I didn't do much. I did have a drunken night with an Air Force MP in his 20s who wanted to "experiment," but when I woke up, I was humiliated and nearly suicidal. I did eventually get into a repressive religion through which I did reparative therapy, but it wasn't the way I was brought up. I chose the religion, I'm sure, because it matched my self-hatred. I can't blame them.

Anyhoo, when I hear my straight friends talk about their earlier sexual exploits, and how much fun they were, and, far from being shaming, they felt empowered and masculine--I get jealous! I quit even attempting to have sex at an age when they were coming to terms with themselves as men. And then I spent the next 30 years feeling noble about my celibacy when if fact I was simply being eaten away by my internalized homophobia.

So, do other gays feel jealous of straight people? And how do those of us who come out in middle age make up for lost time? How can we have a sexual adolescence without becoming a pathetic old guy at the bar picking up "twinks" (or whatever they're called these days)? (And I don't want to go to bars--I'm a recovering alcoholic.)

And, on a side note, how do you handle sexual fantasies about straight friends with whom you have no intention of having sex? A side effect of knowing my friend's early sexual exploits is that I find myself imagining what they must have been like, and that leads to, well. . . :oops: Is there a way to get past fantasies about friends?

I appreciate this site for allowing me ask questions. Thanks!
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Phoenix6570 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:39 pm

Yes I have been jealous of straight guys many a times. It mainly happened to me when I was in college and would go out to parties with friends. You would hear so many guys talk about going out and finding a girl or stories about what happened a certain night. I hated the fact that I couldn't go out and freely cruise guys. Sometimes it would ruin the night since I would see it all around and I would get frustrated.

As far as friends go I generally don't think of friends in a sexual manner; at least I try not to. I respect our friendship and leave it at that. I'll admit I had one friend who was so hot I couldn't help but touch him anytime I got the chance, but that was the rare slip up. When it comes to friends I try to ditch the thoughts and it gets easier over time. Otherwise you'll go crazy hanging out with them holding sexual thoughts inside.
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Ashpenaz » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:48 pm

I'm glad it's not just me! :) I really enjoy my straight friends, but when they get to tell their stories and all I have is a chance to once again defend my noble celibacy, it drives me crazy! I've got to catch up one of these days. The odds aren't looking good, but I'm going to do my best!

I do sort of wish I hadn't learned so much about my one friend's past. I didn't think of him in a sexual way until I learned he had much more sex than I ever did or probably hope to. My fantasies have to do with reliving my youth vicariously through him, I guess. I need my own sexual adolescence to brag about. :!:
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Phoenix6570 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:31 pm

Good attitude as long as you keep trying I'm sure you'll get results. It may take some time but as long as you find the right person than that it was worth the wait in my opinion.
"As long as a person doesn't admit he's defeated, he is not defeated-- he's just a little behind, and isn't through fighting" ~ Darrel Royal
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Marvinteck » Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:22 pm

And how do those of us who come out in middle age make up for lost time? How can we have a sexual adolescence without becoming a pathetic old guy at the bar picking up "twinks" (or whatever they're called these days)? (And I don't want to go to bars--I'm a recovering alcoholic.)

And, on a side note, how do you handle sexual fantasies about straight friends with whom you have no intention of having sex? A side effect of knowing my friend's early sexual exploits is that I find myself imagining what they must have been like, and that leads to, well. . . Is there a way to get past fantasies about friends?



A quick run down of my sexual history would be I had gay sex with my best friend during my teen years. Ran back into the closet when i was 18 and started going to church. Was in the closet for ten years till i came back out in present day at the age of 28. I have never been in bed with a female or dated at all. When I was in the closet I was jelous of straight people. All my straight friends and family were bagging chicks while I looked like a pathetic loser who didnt have game. I look back on the last ten years and i am jelous of the fact i wasnt able to sexually explore and find some body to settle down with.

Unfortunately we cant get the years we lost back but we can focus on the future. If you want to experience a sexual adolescence so to speak you could always put a personal ad on craigslist to hook up with people without going out to the bar. I just checked my local craiglist and saw quite a few older guys on there looking for some action. You might consider trying it. This goes without saying but make sure you practice safe sex if you are going to be hooking up with random strangers. As for fantasys about striaght friends I would stop thinking about them. Masturbate to gay porn if you have to but I wouldnt reccomend thinking about your friends.
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby catapult » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:39 am

Phoenix6570 wrote:As far as friends go I generally don't think of friends in a sexual manner; at least I try not to. I respect our friendship and leave it at that. I'll admit I had one friend who was so hot I couldn't help but touch him anytime I got the chance, but that was the rare slip up.


Yeah, I also have a friend I can't keep my hands off. He's definitely straight, but we are tight and he doesn't seem to mind and in fact, is into some physical, friendly contact also. But I know nothing really physical will happen. But he's a great friend and I'm happier with him than any gays I've met so far. I'm sort of in love and he's got a good, tight buddy. Okay for now. Doesn't seem unhealthy. We've never talked about our feelings. Sort of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." I know I should come out to him, but pretty sure that would change our relationship. He may realize I'm gay, but not for sure. If he knew for sure, he may become more distant.
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Ashpenaz » Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:29 pm

I'm not sure I have the energy for Craigslist hookups! :yawinkle: I'd really like to start with some guy who is more of a friend with benefits (though I don't like that term). Straight guys have so many more chances to explore and experiment. I will consider myself lucky if I ever find ONE guy I find attractive who finds me attractive. Look at it this way, Marvinteck, you shaved 20 years off of my 30 years of noble celibacy. Now I can be jealous of you since you have a lot of time to explore, and you probably aren't worried how your high blood pressure medicine is going to affect your orgasm! :o
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Phoenix6570 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:16 pm

^ You can use Craigslist to meet any of your needs. If you want a friend that you can have casual sex with post ads for that. They're tons of other sites out there that you can try as well. Websites exist for every little niche so explore and find something that suits you.
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Ashpenaz » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:00 pm

Craigslist probably works for some gays. But it bugs me--why does gay sex have to be so seamy and underground? Why do I have look through pictures of penises in order to find someone? When I was a teenager, it was all about public restrooms, parks, rest areas. Like I say, my best gay friend would hang out on Main Street corners and get into cars with older men. Craigslist just seems like a new version of that. I want to have sex, but I don't want to get it that way.

Straights can just meet each other in normal ways--grocery stores, classes, church, etc. It doesn't have to be some seamy, shame-based, anonymous exchange. I want to live my life and do what I do and meet other gays--why doesn't it work that way? Why can't I meet gays in my normal life? Why can't we openly flirt with waiters the way straights flirt with waitresses? Why can't we hit on the guy at the next table the way straights hit on the girl at the next table? Why can't we go into Borders and say, "Oh, I love Jane Austen!" to the cute guy in the Literature section?

I want the same freedom to flirt that straights get! :!:
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby catapult » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:22 pm

You could flirt, etc. if gays were identifiable. Sure a guy could hit on a girl and it many turn out she is a Lesbian and says bug off, but 95% of the time, he can be sure she is straight and at least may consider him.

We can't bemoan the fact that we are otherwise invisible and unidentifiable. That's just the way it is, physically. Unless we all want to wear pink ribbons.

Just go to gay events. There may be some straights there, but now YOU can be pretty sure that 95% will be gay and you can flirt without shame or fear or concern.

Or the internet is still a possibility and it doesn't have to be Craigslist. This site and other sites where you feel to be open about your sexuality are possible ways to meet. But one must be careful about safety as we are never sure who we get when and if we eventually meet in person. First meeting should certainly be in a very public place in broad daylight, just to be sure.
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Ashpenaz » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:25 am

Just to whine a little more, I've been to a lot of gay events. They have a big Pride celebration in Omaha. The trouble is, most of the guys who go to these events are guys who have chosen a way of being gay I don't connect with. They tend to be the sort who have internalized the stereotypes. I don't think I've ever seen a guy with the kind of masculinity I find attractive at a Pride event, but I see masculine guys all the time--for instance, at local softball games or at the bookstore. Gay events aren't about affirming masculinity--they're more of a "third gender" space than a gay space.

My point is this: when straight men are coming to terms with their sexuality, they can openly flirt and express themselves, and there are a lot of women who will respond, and everyone pats them on the back. Gays have to go to a seamy underground where, if you're masculine, you're in the minority. I don't want to play that game. I've got nothing to hide. I want to flirt with guys I find attractive the way straights get to flirt with women they find attractive wherever and whenever they find them. I don't want to have to leave my normal life and go to a "Hogwarts Special School for Gays" in order to find happiness. I'm not a magical wizard--I'm just a normal guy who wants to have sex.
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby catapult » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:09 pm

I hear ya. But no sense whining. This is not something we can do anyting about. I doubt there will ever be a day when it will be okay to flirt or hit on ANY guy. We just gotta deal with that fact that we are in the minority here and unless we are marked or physically identifiable, it's not going to change.

Get creative with trying to find your type. I tried Gay basketball, Gay Hiking and Gay running groups. There are probably Gay hunting, fishing and car groups.

Also, this is a bit daring, but if there is a guy you'd like to flirt with, but you're not sure he's gay, try some subtle flirting that won't get you punched out. You can usually get away with a friendly look and see how he responds. Just don't wag your tongue when you look affectionately at him. :P Or, if he is already a friend, you could try a quick pat on the back or shoulder as you part one day to see how he responds. Just don't make if soft and long. If he reciprocates, you're in business and you could try a short shoulder massage at an appropriate time to see if you get to second base. If he doesn't respond the first time, you could try one more time later. But if he recoils at all, give it up.

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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Ashpenaz » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:01 pm

I like what you say, Catapult, and I'm not dismissing it out of hand. I think it would be great to try gay rugby or gay softball. Of course, I'm probably not in good enough shape to play, so I'd have to be the pathetic old guy sitting on the bench hoping that one of the younger guys will one day condescend to allow me to give him a blow job. :? (Can I say blow job on this board? Or should I try some kind of euphemism? Maybe "birthday kiss?")

My trouble is that even gay groups who are organized around masculine activities end up being, well, gay. Gay rodeo is a big thing out here. One would hope it would be a basic rodeo where the guys just happen to be gay. But, no, it's pretty much a drag show with horses. I might as well join the Gay Men's Chorus.

I belong to the local gun club because that's where the kind of guys I find attractive hang out. I'm hoping that at least one or two of them is gay. Is that too much to hope for? My modus operandi is to meet guys I find attractive, who aren't married and are in my age range, chat with them, and see if they give out any signals. Then, I go from there. THIS HAS NEVER WORKED. Not one single time. I still don't see why. There have got to be some unmarried, attractive men my age who are unmarried because they're gay. Yet, I never meet them.

But I'd rather strike out at the gun club than score at the Pride parade. I'd rather hold out for the right man than play the gay game and jump into the gay ghetto just because I'm lonely. At least, I make some good friends who know how to shoot :) .
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby edu999 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:27 pm

It's probably because the kind of gay guys you're looking for are just as guarded as you are. It's like you're both Klingon warbirds with your cloaking devices on. You'll never see each other. :)
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Daknee » Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:23 am

edu999 wrote:It's probably because the kind of gay guys you're looking for are just as guarded as you are. It's like you're both Klingon warbirds with your cloaking devices on. You'll never see each other. :)

I like this !
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby nimby » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:51 pm

Cosign!!! Decifering the obvious is such a lost art. Bravo.
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Donovan » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:06 am

Oh, catapult, I have so much to learn from you! Can you give me a private lesson in flirting........ :D
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Schlodesss » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:37 am

Well, I have had about am month to really think about my reply to this thread. It's funny too, because 2,5 10 years ago I would have said yes yes yes...

Now?? Not so much. I am jealous that they can get by so easily in things like starting a new job and blending in as one of the guys fairly easy [I don't mean for straight acting reasons, but because the hottie walkin by... they really find hot..]

THAT.

Is where it ends. EVERY one of my friends in the last three weeks has had some sort of huge *$#*@# drama over miniscule stupid crap with their GFs... to the point of breaking up, stuffs out in the front lawn whole nine....

I'm happy to be SINGLE. I can sleep in till whenever. Go wherever and whenever i want on a whimb, eat what I want when i want, I have freedom. Oh bigger turbo for my car???? Yes Please.... while they are buying diapers and food for their 3 or 5 kids, and jewelery for her... so she can take the ring or necklace off every time the fight and wheel it at the BF or across the room with everything she's got.. & yeah I know there are two sides I am sure my buddies do stuff to... but I can honestly say that 99% of the relationships around me [friends and family even] and in *$#*@# shambles, be it constant fighting, the two settling cause it's better than being alone, one or both cheating, or one of the two is SUPER nice and partner is a douchebag or a princess...

Being Gay, being single from a relationship home life standpoint is not that bad at all guys get over it................

The only parts I have problems with being gay is starting a blue collar job with a bunch of blue collar guys who either don't care for gays or just have never known someone gay so they are spooked.. functioning in every day life to survive in things like jobs, I envy str8s guys and women, but fakk... it stops there... they can have the rest ROFLCOPTERSSSSSS!!!!!111

IN closing I had a straight buddy actually get a little bit bitter with me because I am free and don't have to answer to anyone... hahahahaha!

SCREW relationships. No thanks whether gay, str8, crooked, triangular... dun want any.
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby nimby » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:52 pm

Well Schlod, I have to some what agee with you and am a tad jealous. Not to whine buy...

I don't have one minute to myself at all, any time of the day. From the time I wake up to the minute I go to sleep, I have someone within five feet ot me asking for somethig. Even when I go to the can, the cat beats me there by a second and accompanies me. I love my family, I really do, but I'm going nuts!!!!! Plus the fact tat I'm surrounded by females 24/7. Ony one male in my family and I'm it; and they all cling to me. Like right now, my wife is tired and sleeping on the couch, half on my lap. Will not go to bed, just drape all over me. When I strongly suggest she go to bed, she gets in a huff. And with one eye on me to see what I'm doing or what site I'm on. I really am feeling closterphobic. Can't sit in my underwear, scratch my ass if I want to, or even make my own coffee. And after 23 years, she still can't make it the way I like it !!

See my need for a man now? Sometimes my cravings are so strong for male companionship, I'm ready to go grab one right off the street.
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby Schlodesss » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:01 am

Hey Nimby well I went a bit overboard at the end... yeah if i meet the right guy it will be what it is... but for the most part yah, I am happy being left alone lol.
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby J » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:51 am

nimby wrote:See my need for a man now? Sometimes my cravings are so strong for male companionship, I'm ready to go grab one right off the street.


Then I think you should.

Why are you denying yourself something you *need*? This existence isn't fair to you, and it's not fair to your wife either. Both of you need to be with someone(s) who you want to be with, and wants to be with you (and her). In fact, she might be clinging to you the way she is because she suspects something's up. You only live once, so don't continue to deprive yourself and be unfair towards her. She needs to know so SHE can move on and find someone who really wants her, instead of being with her only because he's "supposed to". I'd be majorly claustrophobic in your position too! You should really consider moving on. Not just for you, but also for her. I know there are other guys on this board that have been in your situation and managed to move on. Their names escape me at the moment.

With that said, I also love being single. I have seen VERY little action the past year or two (my decision), and as long as my left hand remains intact, I'll be fine. Go figure, I'm right handed! LOL
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby nimby » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:12 am

Sorry J. I thought most knew my situation here.

I'm the resident married bi guy. Very happily married, I might add. My wife knows I'm bi and is very ok with it. She even lets me have that special friend to play with. She knows him and adores him too. Talks to him all the time. I'm not doing anything secretive and behind her back. Actually, since I came out to her, after a bit of a rough patch, we've become much stronger and closer and everything is fine.

The jist of my rant is, can people grow too close? Everyone likes their personal space and private time, no matter if you're gay, straight or somewhere in between. That's what I'm lacking, private time or just some male bonding time. There is nothing wrong with that, is there?
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby olywaguy » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:21 pm

Nimby, I think it has to do more with your wife's health issues than anything else. She wants to make sure that the time she has left is a good one and one that doesn't get wasted. She seeks comfort and security and you give her plenty of that.
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby nimby » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:41 pm

She is doing just fine and will have many years left. She doesn't have a choice in the matter. She will beat it, plain and simple. :)

Besides, this clingy thing started long ago, many years before she got sick. Really ever since my dad dies when I was 10 and I became, "the head of the house". So really, it's been like this for 30 years.
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Re: Jealousy of straight guys

Postby crankycurmudgeon » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:21 pm

edu999 wrote:It's probably because the kind of gay guys you're looking for are just as guarded as you are. It's like you're both Klingon warbirds with your cloaking devices on. You'll never see each other. :)


So get yourself an I-phone and sign up for Grindr.
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