Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Talk about romance and dating, or lack there of.

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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby Rico » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:01 pm

BurgosPRman wrote:
Rico wrote:
What puzzles me is why this is just a gay issue at all? Even though gay rates of nonmonogamy have always been higher than straight rates of nonmonogamy, the gap is closing.


You answered the question, because it's higher in our community, sadly. And also because we are gay, so it's our issue, as far as we are concerned. But yeah, I know it's not only happening in the gay community, but sadly, in our community there's a pervasive movement and a large vocal group that perpetuates the idea that it is the accepted, and the ideal. Among heteros, it's still seen as "weird" and "bad". In our "world", lots of gay men see it as an ideal way of living. That's why so many monogamous gay men or gays that aspire to be monogamous are quickly dismissed as unrealistic. Heck, I have heard cynical gay men say "monogamy is for straights"

Guess we don't travel in the same circles because most gay couples I know are monogomous. That's the problem I have with the construct of a "gay community." WTF is that? Where is it? Who writes the rules? Is there a charter? It's all made up stuff by folks with an agenda and you should know better. Do what's right for you, don't brag about, and nothing else matters.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby canucklehead » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:10 pm

Material removed by Administrator

Considering that this was a personal message/exchange between you and BurgosPRman, I would say it wasn't a public comment. I would also like to point out that it is in very bad form (for both of you) to post private messages between the two of you for the rest of us to see.

I am not trying to referee or to police the forum but rather point out that any constructive comments made by both of you have lost a lot of credibility.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby madsglen » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:18 pm

Rico wrote:What could have been a worthwhile discussion about monogomy and human behavior has now become ugly, tired, and tedious. I expect the mods to shut down this thread in minutes. How unfortunate!

I thought the same. Then realized that of the mods for this section of the board, only Carlos is here regularly anymore (at least posting regularly). And he's on a well-deserved vacation over the holidays. So, we'll just have to muddle through, I suppose. Spirited discussions and even differences of opinion are welcome. Name-calling and uncivil behavior aren't. Play nice, guys. Things going beyond that have, in the past, left some people (including myself for a long while) to disappear from this board for a while or permanently. A shame.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby canucklehead » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:44 pm

BurgosPRman wrote:Ok, I will rephrase it; to me, in my opinion, they are cynical. And yes, to me they are settling for something less. Remember, these are all opinions, I think that's clear. I don't know why it is necessary to bookend our words with "in my opinion" all the time, since that's what message boards are for. To express opinions. And my opinion will not change anyone's reality or anybody's views or facts of life. Just like their cynical opinions won't change my beliefs.


<sigh>Sorry but you still don't get what I'm saying. Of course we know what you said is "your opinion". Remember, you and I think alike with regards to the monogamy issue.

However, to call someone who doesn't think like you "cynical" is quite frankly condescending. What you and I value is not necessarily what everyone else values or even should value. For YOU and YOUR way of thinking, if YOU were to enter into an open relationship, it would be settling. However, you're not leaving any room for the possibility that an open relationship is exactly what other people might actually want. Even to say that "in your opinion, they are cynical" assumes that they have the same values that you have but are compromising those values - that they would prefer monogamy but are settling for less because that's all they can get. That's pretty opinionated, don't you think?
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby canucklehead » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:51 pm

BurgosPRman wrote:Yeah, it is. I see what you are saying, but like I said...my opinionated opinion won't affect or negate their reality. And I frankly don't see it as condescending, to me they are cynical, because there is a level of cynicism invloved...heck, even when I have heard them say things like "You are monogamous? Poor thing, you need to mature...you'll see, the older you get, you'll see things differently", I don't necessarily see it as condescending, it's just my reality distilled through their cynicism, just like my opinion is their reality distilled through my idealism. their opinion won't change my reality and my beliefs.

Even If I had the belief that monogamy is what everyone should aspire to, or that they are settling for less, it's just a belief I have. A belief that I perfectly understand will not be shared by all gay men. But I can still express it. I can't help if they think it's condescending. I guess on that we are going to agree to diagree. :)


I hear what you're saying. Sounds like the attitude you've been hit with is condescending as well. The guys who tell you that you're the one that needs to "grow up" or to open your eyes - because as a gay man, like it or not, you just need to deal with the reality - are being jerks and it does sound like they've settled. However, there are gay men who truly don't and never wanted to be monogamous. I'm sounding like a broken record but we should ALL accept that what works for us will not necessarily work for others. Some choose to be with more than one person while others settle because that's what their partners want. Some choose to be monogamous while others settle (or cheat) because their partners say that's the only way they're willing to be. It all depends on how you look at it.

But back to your original post. Yes, there are seriously monogamous men/couples out there.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby canucklehead » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:47 am

BurgosPRman wrote:
canucklehead wrote:
But back to your original post. Yes, there are seriously monogamous men/couples out there.


It's nice to see others that share those values. Hopefully, I will get to meet couples like that, it would be cool and inspiring to chill and hang out with gay couples that have that that outlook and those morals.


BTW, love the pic! :D
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby canucklehead » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:53 am

BurgosPRman wrote:Huh? What's so special about the pic?
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby The Saint » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:04 pm

Just want to say that I agree with Canucklehead -- each to his own values, be true. I know a lot of monogamous gay couples and single gay men that want to be in a monogamous relationship. I also live in NYC, which is probably considered to be one big sexual playground for a lot of gay men.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby furface » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:58 pm

Administrator's Note:

I have reviewed the several posts made here. Some were deleted outright and a couple were edited by me. There is some minor discontinuity, but it couldn't be helped. Y'all should be able to follow the discussion/debate without difficulty.

You WILL NOT resort to ad homenium attacks. You WILL NOT behave like 6 year olds on the playground.

I have issued appropriate warnings and I expect all y'all be behave like adults. Debate, discuss, disagree - fine; just keep it civil and well away from the dregs of the vulgate.

You may now return to the discussion in progress.

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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby butch » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:22 pm

I find it truly bizarre that some people seem to think that THEIR ideas about how people behave is the ONLY way for people to behave. It is a very conservative view of reality with no basis in fact nor reality.

Anyone with any intelligence, at all, can see that there are all kinds of types and situations going on in the REAL world. There are plenty of monogamous couples out there, both straight and gay... and there are plenty who cheat, and there are plenty who have no interest in "settling down".

I find the very question "are there any monogamous men/couples out there?" completely redundant and pointless in even asking.

Anyone who is paying any attention to reality, at all, would see the question as completely pointless because simple observation would give the answer... yes there are plenty of monogamous men/couples out there, if one would only pay attention to the reality around them.

I find it completely ridiculous that anyone would impose THEIR morality about such things upon others... that THEIR reality is the only valid one.

As for me, I've always liked the idea of a relationship... I've actually had a long term relationship and one shorter one when I first came out. Also had a kind of long term relationship with a straight, slightly bi, guy. I can't really say he was bi since I'm the only gay man I know of that he ever had anything to do with. He has become a successful New York fashion photographer because he met me ( I was a commercial photographer... cars, booze, food, fashion, celebrities, annual reports) and discovered a love for photography (and the fact it is a way to meet a ton of beautiful women).

If one is looking and is willing to make the commitment, it can be found. I have little or no interest in most things gay, so it was just luck I met someone who shared my interests and whom I found very attractive and suitable as a mate and I really value the "affair" I had with the straight boy. He choose me, I was more than happy with that. As for age difference, I find it really, really bizarre that some would think it "creepy". Such a view is very, very, very immature and lacking in any kind of intelligence. Not many seem to think that the relationship between Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore is creepy. I find it bizarre that some think THEIR views about age are the ONLY ones that are valid. Such people are poorly informed and have no real insight about life... or are so insecure in their lives and ideas that they try to impose some structure on others with their own delusional ideas. They seem to create, in their own minds, fantasies about others that aren't fact, nor even likely. They spend their lives making assumptions about others with no basis in fact, at all.

I'm 65 now. I've reached male menopause and sex is not really a reality for me anymore (damn). Can't change that. That came on completely unexpectedly and suddenly in my 63rd year.

I'm guessing I have about another 10 to 15 years left in my life, based upon family history, so I'm not looking for a relationship anymore. Can't even imagine it. I'm not interested in most things gay, have no interest in gay bars, not into group sex, nor orgies... never have been. Have no interest in gay porn... most of it is so extremely boring and the men so uninteresting I find it bizarre there is even an audience or market for it. What most gay men seem to find "hot" I find completely uninteresting... definitely not "hot".

I've had a very interesting and exciting life most can only dream about... saw a lot of the world, met lots of famous people. Never had a lot of money, but a lot of adventure came my way. Had a wonderful boyfriend who, unfortunately, died. Nothing I can do about that. Who knew? I'm just very lucky that I found someone so very, very intelligent and creative, very very attractive and "just my type". I found someone who wasn't even remotely "gay" in the way that so many gay men are. He had none of the stereo type characteristics that are so, seemingly, common among gay men. I must have good Karma... not that I believe in any of that kind of crap. I think my life was the way it was for the main reason that I am the type who valued and cherished "a relationship"... that I was the "coupling" type of guy. Not all are and it's ludicrous to imagine that ALL should be.

Life is short... to each their own. You will be dead soon enough, and there is nothing else but this life. All that is real is the now and life is very, very, very short. I have always recognized that fact and lived life to the fullest I have been able to do... and still do.

But... I wrote a book on the subject. You can find it if you check me out.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby furface » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:41 pm

Administrator's Note

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Y'all are gettin' on my last nerve. Discuss the ideas, not perceived/projected predilections or practices.

Capiche?!!

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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby The Saint » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:08 pm

BurgosPRman wrote: I lived in NY for two months, and it was the most horrible thing.
Sorry to hear that. I don't even know if I can name the most horrible thing that has happened in my life.
I met a lot of gay couples through a social/political organization I was co-chair of,and not one of those couples was monogamous or committed. It was disgusting to me, how commitment meant nothing for these people, and to hear some of them tell stories about how much they enjoyed their partners being fucked by some other dude? (One of them actually said that he felt awsome about himself when he heard his man having sex with some guy in the other room Image Then they have the audacity to talk about love... :shock:


I kind of pitied them.
Well, I guess we just hang with different crowds because my experiences are different. Good luck on meeting a crowd of people more suited to your viewpoints.

On the other hand, I actually met a guy that was thinking of adopting children...at 27! In NYC! That gave me hope that there are decent men out there, even in huge cities like NY.
I'm glad that you have some hope.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby canucklehead » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:26 am

BurgosPRman wrote:I lived in NY for two months, and it was the most horrible thing. I met a lot of gay couples through a social/political organization I was co-chair of,and not one of those couples was monogamous or committed. It was disgusting to me, how commitment meant nothing for these people, and to hear some of them tell stories about how much they enjoyed their partners being fucked by some other dude? (One of them actually said that he felt awsome about himself when he heard his man having sex with some guy in the other room Image Then they have the audacity to talk about love... :shock:


I kind of pitied them. On the other hand, I actually met a guy that was thinking of adopting children...at 27! In NYC! That gave me hope that there are decent men out there, even in huge cities like NY.


NYC is a great city to visit but I've never experience gay life there so cannot comment. All I know is I can relate to most of your sentiments. I get this sense of defeat when I see gay men treat relationships with such disregard. In my opinion, what is the point of being in a relationship if you're going to just sleep around. How is it any different from being best friends with benefits?

For me, I know it would hurt if the man I loved slept with someone else. I keep that in mind every time I find myself attracted to someone who is in a relationship and it wouldn't matter to me whether or not they are cool with it. I'm not cool with it.

I agree. Why does it have to be so hard to find? Question for you. What are you doing to get out there to meet guys who want a monogamous relationship?
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby medic » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:25 pm

I feel that by not having a map, gay relationships have constructed a failing foundation. I have never seen one child do well without guidance, and so it is for gay relationships. OPen means cake and eat it to. Life was not set up that way. Sometimes we must sacrifice one for the greater. Monogamy is more than just a social convention it is a means of deeper commitment to a value that we both share. That from now on I am yours and you are mine. We will seek deeper and deeper levels of intimacy and we strive to become better and closer mates. Closer through sexual contact and vulnerability. it is this sharing of ones self to each other than strengthens the bonds and creates a true marriage of souls. This is why sex is always better with one who you love than one just taken out of a bar. You cannot possibly tell me that you can achieve all this while we fu** other people nightly? or once a week? I will not share my love and sex with my man with a total stranger. I want my bond to be better than that. I am the kind of man that would have looked to get married and settle down if i was straight.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby nimby » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:59 pm

Ok. I'm going to say something that might ruffle some feathers, but we're all mature enough to handle it. Monogamy builds codependency. And the grass isn't always greener on the other side. I have been in a monogamous relationship with my wife for 22 years and let me tell you, there are only so many ways you can eat chicken. Chicken, chicken, chicken. It does get rather monotonous after a while. Some times you need some spicy Italian sausage :wink: to stir things up. After all, variety is the spice of life. But why does life have to be so black and white? Strictly monogamous or strictly whoring around? What about shades of grey?

There is something called polyamory too where a person can have more than one love. I believe that as humans , we have the capacity to be able to love and commit to more than just one person without hurt feelings, as long as understanding and appreciation is part of the picture. And when it works, it can be the most rewarding trade off possible. Now it does require work, but what relationship doesn't? When you have honest and open communication amongst all parties, it is the most rewarding experience for all those involved, and for as long as all want it. Each relationship helps to enhance the other. It is a great trade off for those wanting something more, but still in a deeply fulfilling and respectful environment. It's working for me and I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby michaelk69 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:22 am

well said, Nimby, and I agree with you completely.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby Cajun » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:28 am

nimby wrote:.........I have been in a monogamous relationship with my wife for 22 years and let me tell you, there are only so many ways you can eat chicken. .....


Since we're ruffling feathers here, how can someone say that they've been in a "monogamous" relationship with their wife for 22 years, yet admit that they've been screwing around on the side with guys, and would have it no other way????

Not judging, just say-in.......

And for the record, there are literally THOUSANDS of ways to "serve chicken" :wink:
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby michaelk69 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:43 am

I thought that the screwing around with guys came after the 22 years of monogamy?

(but I could be wrong?)
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby nimby » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:03 am

It did. The guy thing is a very new phenonema, unless you count the high school days. But none the less, chicken is still chicken.

But since the wife knows and does accept me the way I am (she does have bi tendencies of her own too, just hasn't acted on them yet), and knows that I have a special guy, is that ok? Is that still considered, "on the side?" She's even met him and his partner, just thinks the world of them and even chats with him frequently. I laugh though when people say, "You just want your cake and eat it too." Umm, yeah! What good is having cake if you can't eat it?

It's ok though. Ask away. No harm-no foul right?
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby Phoenix6570 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:43 am

Nimby I think the idea you presented is a very interesting one. I believe that it has the possibility to work, and turn out very well given the right people are involved. My first thoughts on it is that it could turn into a disastrous situation. More so if its a one sided equation where one partner has another they care for and the other is left to feel like they're competing.

As a society I don't think many would welcome polyamory. I bet many would say that those involved are fools and deluding themselves to the issue that they're partner wants more than them. I could see how jealousy and paranoia would quickly set in and open up a new door of issues.

I cannot say if I would be open to such an idea or not. I've never been in a relationship, so I don't have anything to go on. It sounds nice but I would tread carefully.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby nimby » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:56 am

And you are so right. One does have to proceed with extreme caution. One must also remember their priorities while also dealing with jealousies and insecurities. It is a lot of work. But what relationship isn't these days. Just look at the divorce rate amongst monogamous couples. Everything now a days seems to have a 50/50 chance of success, and I believe that one has to somehow find their own happiness in a crazy and world. Now I wouldn't reccomend my situation for everyone. Some people just couldn't handle it, nor would they even try. But for those who have the courage and willingness to share themselves and their loved one with another person, I say all the best to you.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby medic » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:39 pm

I think we fool ourselves into believing certain things. Do you open relationship guys and polyamorous guys really believe that after giving a piece of yourself here and there and everywhere that all of these relationships are nurtured and deep. Come on? Really? So you have 2 relationships going or more, work, other activities and then your telling me that both relationships get equal time , love , commitment. Really? If thats so please tell me how to handle my time schedule because i must be doing something wrong.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby nimby » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:41 pm

Why must we be fooling ourselves? Some people can't even hande one relationship, are they fools for trying? No one says time has to be spent equally amongst the two. For some, quality of time spent together is juat as important as quantity.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby backpacker » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:19 pm

I'll jump in to say that I couldn't handle it. One relationship and the ups and downs that come with it are enough for me to handle lol. If someone is fortunate enough to handle more (no pun intended) then so be it assuming everyone involved is aware/ok with the situation. Just not for me though.
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Re: Are there any monogamous men/couples out there? (Seriously)

Postby Rico » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:33 pm

Phoenix6570 wrote:... I believe that it has the possibility to work, and turn out very well given the right people are involved....


Phoenix....that's the most profound thing said in this entire damn thread! Congrats to you! I admire you for it.

It really is about the people involved, and not some construct. Polyamory is certainly not for everyone, although my personal belief is that most humans, if you look at their actual behavior, are polyamorous by nature. In other words, as a society we may all preach and strive for monogamy, but when you look at what humans actually do, it indicates otherwise. Something is going on somewhere.

One enters into extra-relationships usually after first committing to a primary partner and most often, only after a long period of time. Jealousy rarely enters in to the poly equation, and is an emotion most likely experienced by amateurs and the voyeuristic.

Finally, polyamory is especially not for those who seem incapable of establishing and nurturing even a single relationship over a long period of time. If one can’t find and maintain a single relationship, then he'll certainly never be able to handle more than one.

Edited to add this for clarification: The point of view described above takes into account that I distinguish polyamory from the other behavior that some call swinging, partner-swapping, or whatever. And I can respect and accept that some may not see a difference between the two, but I do.
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