because it was only a matter of time....

Enter at your own risk. There's bound to be some heated discussions in here about the elephant and the donkey.

Moderators: selective_soldier, drtom, edu999, devilnuts

Gay Marriage?

Yes, We should be free to marry and held to the same standards
5
21%
Yes, we should have the option, but I don't plan on getting hitched
4
17%
No, Civil Unions are just fine, so long as all the rights are the same
4
17%
No, no one should ever get married, it's a bad idea.
1
4%
No, we should change the laws so that EVERYONE has a Civil Union, let the churches have their special word
10
42%
I don't care.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 24

because it was only a matter of time....

Postby dabonsteed » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:32 pm

So here's where you get to voice your opinion. Ah, polls are fun. Remember, no one is right, and no one is wrong. Try not to bring the "War on Terrorism vs. Gay Marriage either or situation into it.
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Postby Texas_Thang » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:38 pm

Actually I didn't read ALL the choices.

Marriage is a religious institution. I just want legal recognition and all that it entails. If we can find a church that will marry us, so much the better.
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Postby Thomsen » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:19 pm

option one and option 5 are the same as far as im concerned. Basically I think everyoen should be on an even playing field. Smarter peopel can figure out what that should be.
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Postby RedMenace » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:23 pm

I think there should definitely be a standard for it though. And there should be a way to divorce as well. Would it be called a civil division? :P
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Postby charmcitywop » Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:21 pm

Civil unions with all the same rights, protections, and responsibilities works for me. I don't need the word "marriage".

I'm a practical guy so I worry about stuff like someone forcing Jonathan out of this house if I were to die and hospital visitiation.

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Postby J » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:36 am

Marriage, gay or straight, is really just a legal issue in this country. This is because there is (was??????) a separation of church and state. So whether you're married in a church or in front of a judge it's not supposed to matter. The only reason legal marriage/union is illegal is because of discrimination. I don't care what they call it, marriage, civil union, whatever. As long as everyone has the same legal benefits that's all that should matter.

But I am afraid of the lack of separation between church and state in recent years. If a church doesn't want to marry a couple then so be it. Churches should not have a say in legal matters. But since political donations are pouring from the so-called "faithful" (aka fanatics), money is talking, and church is taking over state.
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Postby chidiver » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:55 pm

Wow the bot bumped a really old tread, from a really old poster. I remember dabonsteed from a very long time ago; I really miss him on the board. Anyone know what ever became of him?
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Postby DeckApe » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:59 pm

The name only rings the faintest of bells. I suppose you could always e-mail him and see if his notification calls his attention back to the board.
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Postby chidiver » Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:47 pm

DeckApe wrote:The name only rings the faintest of bells. I suppose you could always e-mail him and see if his notification calls his attention back to the board.


No, he left on rather bad terms around the same time as Billy from Texas.
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Postby dracuscalico » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:33 pm

chidiver wrote:
DeckApe wrote:The name only rings the faintest of bells. I suppose you could always e-mail him and see if his notification calls his attention back to the board.


No, he left on rather bad terms around the same time as Billy from Texas.


It's not like anyone who has left is missing a whole lot. Hardly anyone is online whenever we check in and we get more action from the bots than the participants. We have got to find a way to pick up the pace around here and keep it lively, so being here is a destination, not a time killer while people are waiting for something else to happen.
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Postby DeckApe » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:56 pm

dracuscalico wrote:Hardly anyone is online whenever we check in...


Is there something I'm missing about having large numbers of people on line at the same time? Is there a chat room hidden somewhere that I'm missing?

A while back, the board attempted to move to a forum software that was supposed to have better support and be less problematic than phpBB. Or maybe it had better features, I don't recall. At any rate, it was short-lived, and I personally didn't care for the new board anyway. It was a while before this board came back, and a lot of our members wandered away in the mean time. I don't know how many are actually aware that this message board is back, even now. This is why the membership rolls are a bit... quiet.
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Postby dracuscalico » Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 pm

DeckApe wrote:
dracuscalico wrote:Hardly anyone is online whenever we check in...


Is there something I'm missing about having large numbers of people on line at the same time? Is there a chat room hidden somewhere that I'm missing?

A while back, the board attempted to move to a forum software that was supposed to have better support and be less problematic than phpBB. Or maybe it had better features, I don't recall. At any rate, it was short-lived, and I personally didn't care for the new board anyway. It was a while before this board came back, and a lot of our members wandered away in the mean time. I don't know how many are actually aware that this message board is back, even now. This is why the membership rolls are a bit... quiet.


If they have email addresses in their profiles, why not send them a message to let them know?
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Postby DeckApe » Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:20 am

I'll cop to laziness, coupled with the fact that 90% of the 'regular' contributors that I could think of are back anyway. Now, if only RedRage00 would show up a little more often...
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Postby doctor dan » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:11 am

DeckApe wrote:
dracuscalico wrote:Hardly anyone is online whenever we check in...


Is there something I'm missing about having large numbers of people on line at the same time? Is there a chat room hidden somewhere that I'm missing?

[...]


in The Butch Board III, there was a clickable button that took you into chat. this was before the move to the "new" site. in The Butch Board II, we used to set a time and create a yahoo chat room. in either/both, we would get 5-20 people at a time. that was the heyday of sa.com butch boards.

as far as oldbies, newbies and bots, i only really pay attention to oldbies' posts and lately it seems only karlo and seb somewhat regularly post. i skim everybody else's. why? because i don't know you. yeah, that applies to both of you, DeckApe and dracuscalico. i have never met you, don't know much about you, as opposed to most people on the first 3-4 pages of the memberlist. with very few exceptions, if you registered after dec 2004, you're a newbie to me and i doubt we've ever met. this doesn't mean you're not worth getting to know, but i suspect that many of us old timers (the ones who remember the first butch board from the 90's) just don't come here any more because the noise to signal ratio is so bad. this is sad, since we used to be a fairly tight community.

in all honesty, it's mostly due to the fact that we've moved on with our lives. the emergency board hasn't had a post in forever, probably coinciding with the last time sa.com went down. it just is what it is.

i have been friends with some of you all for close to ten years. i'm satisfied that you know who you are and in the event that we feel the need to reconnect, we will. cheers.
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Postby DeckApe » Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:31 pm

doctor dan wrote:as far as oldbies, newbies and bots, i only really pay attention to oldbies' posts and lately it seems only karlo and seb somewhat regularly post. i skim everybody else's. why? because i don't know you. yeah, that applies to both of you, DeckApe and dracuscalico. i have never met you, don't know much about you, as opposed to most people on the first 3-4 pages of the memberlist. with very few exceptions, if you registered after dec 2004, you're a newbie to me and i doubt we've ever met. this doesn't mean you're not worth getting to know, but i suspect that many of us old timers (the ones who remember the first butch board from the 90's) just don't come here any more because the noise to signal ratio is so bad. this is sad, since we used to be a fairly tight community.


While I understand where you're coming from, and respect your right to skim through the posts from people that you don't know, I have to say that to me that approach is going to be responsible for the eventual death of the board. I read the vast majority of the posts on this board, even those I don't respond to for fear of encouraging the poster. I even read a post or two from the bots now and again, mostly to make sure they aren't a new user with a really unusual 'nym.

The phrase 'tight-knit community' always makes me pause... so many people use 'tight-knit' to describe what comes across as snobby and exclusive to those not a part of the sweater. I once belonged to a Kiwanis club whose primary source of membership was one church. If you didn't belong to that church, you were on the outside. Expected to contribute to the work and fundraising, but you really didn't have a say in the actions of the club. I left the club when I moved away... last I heard, the membership had shrunk by half, and the 'tight-knit' club was now so tight, it is in danger of becoming a straitjacket. I suspect eventually it will become one person holding themselves so tightly that they strangle themselves.

But then again, I shouldn't be surprised. The gay 'community' at large is also guilty of this sort of behavior. Theme bars, especially. It isn't a club unless you get to exclude someone.
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Postby dracuscalico » Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:14 pm

doctor dan wrote:
DeckApe wrote:
dracuscalico wrote:Hardly anyone is online whenever we check in...


Is there something I'm missing about having large numbers of people on line at the same time? Is there a chat room hidden somewhere that I'm missing?

[...]


in The Butch Board III, there was a clickable button that took you into chat. this was before the move to the "new" site. in The Butch Board II, we used to set a time and create a yahoo chat room. in either/both, we would get 5-20 people at a time. that was the heyday of sa.com butch boards.

as far as oldbies, newbies and bots, i only really pay attention to oldbies' posts and lately it seems only karlo and seb somewhat regularly post. i skim everybody else's. why? because i don't know you. yeah, that applies to both of you, DeckApe and dracuscalico. i have never met you, don't know much about you, as opposed to most people on the first 3-4 pages of the memberlist. with very few exceptions, if you registered after dec 2004, you're a newbie to me and i doubt we've ever met. this doesn't mean you're not worth getting to know, but i suspect that many of us old timers (the ones who remember the first butch board from the 90's) just don't come here any more because the noise to signal ratio is so bad. this is sad, since we used to be a fairly tight community.

in all honesty, it's mostly due to the fact that we've moved on with our lives. the emergency board hasn't had a post in forever, probably coinciding with the last time sa.com went down. it just is what it is.

i have been friends with some of you all for close to ten years. i'm satisfied that you know who you are and in the event that we feel the need to reconnect, we will. cheers.


Well, the behavior of skimming over posts of people you don't know is not a behavior that perpetuates a tight knit community, especially when some have moved on with their lives. All that does is limit your choices to a dwindling pool, while your mind remains closed to what anyone you consider a NEWBIE might have to say. If everyone took such a xenophobic approach, it would accelerate the boards demise.

(Keep in mind that the only reason you got to know the old guard is because you READ their posts instead of skimming them, and THEN decided to get to know them. If you did it before, you can do it again)
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Postby nimby » Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:29 pm

doctor dan wrote:

in The Butch Board III, there was a clickable button that took you into chat. this was before the move to the "new" site. in The Butch Board II, we used to set a time and create a yahoo chat room. in either/both, we would get 5-20 people at a time. that was the heyday of sa.com butch boards.

as far as oldbies, newbies and bots, i only really pay attention to oldbies' posts and lately it seems only karlo and seb somewhat regularly post. i skim everybody else's. why? because i don't know you. yeah, that applies to both of you, DeckApe and dracuscalico. i have never met you, don't know much about you, as opposed to most people on the first 3-4 pages of the memberlist. with very few exceptions, if you registered after dec 2004, you're a newbie to me and i doubt we've ever met. this doesn't mean you're not worth getting to know, but i suspect that many of us old timers (the ones who remember the first butch board from the 90's) just don't come here any more because the noise to signal ratio is so bad. this is sad, since we used to be a fairly tight community.

in all honesty, it's mostly due to the fact that we've moved on with our lives. the emergency board hasn't had a post in forever, probably coinciding with the last time sa.com went down. it just is what it is.

i have been friends with some of you all for close to ten years. i'm satisfied that you know who you are and in the event that we feel the need to reconnect, we will. cheers.


Wow. That was rather... um, yea. That 's exactly the attitude that keeps people away. Nice. I hope you're not in the psych field. Way too touchy feely.
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Postby devilnuts » Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:47 pm

You three just proved why he (and many others) skim your posts. There are MANY people that skim your posts for reasons ranging from your tired lines about the evils of women to the lastest conspiracy theories. Why would we want to read that? Isn't that what the Fantastic Forum is for? We don't want to see colors that contrast too little or too much with the background colors of the site. For many users of the board, it just isn't interesting listening to the same sh*t in every post in every thread. If you don't think that deserves skimming, then I don't know what does. Usually, I only read your posts far enough until you start saying the same sh*t again (Bush said this, media cover-up that, blah, blah, blah). The thing is, you would probably have more people agree with you if you didn't do that all the time. Obviously, since that is the only thing you can post, I know what you are about. Not someone that I'm into reading a whole lot of.

Take it for what it's worth and flame away. It won't be read by too many anyway.

As for dabonsteed, I think that Drexel had emailed him a couple of times after he left the boards. He changed his password to something so random that he would never remember it (since he couldn't delete his own account). The only way he'd be coming back is if he made a new account...which I doubt will happen after this much time. I will have to ask Drexel if he's heard from him lately.
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Postby DeckApe » Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:08 pm

devilnuts wrote:You three just proved why he (and many others) skim your posts. There are MANY people that skim your posts for reasons ranging from your tired lines about the evils of women to the lastest conspiracy theories. Why would we want to read that? Isn't that what the Fantastic Forum is for? We don't want to see colors that contrast too little or too much with the background colors of the site. For many users of the board, it just isn't interesting listening to the same sh*t in every post in every thread. If you don't think that deserves skimming, then I don't know what does. Usually, I only read your posts far enough until you start saying the same sh*t again (Bush said this, media cover-up that, blah, blah, blah). The thing is, you would probably have more people agree with you if you didn't do that all the time. Obviously, since that is the only thing you can post, I know what you are about. Not someone that I'm into reading a whole lot of.

Take it for what it's worth and flame away. It won't be read by too many anyway.


Nah, no flaming from me. I'll have to go back and re-read some of my posts. It's possible that I'm the one with the attitude problem. Though I can honestly say I really don't remember having a favorite conspiracy or post in a vibrating color.
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Postby devilnuts » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:14 pm

DeckApe wrote:Nah, no flaming from me. I'll have to go back and re-read some of my posts. It's possible that I'm the one with the attitude problem. Though I can honestly say I really don't remember having a favorite conspiracy or post in a vibrating color.


No, it wasn't directed so much at what you have said, DeckApe...more what your post said. You even said that you take tight-knit to be selective or snobby and what should you expect from a gay community. You have to understand, a lot of the people that have been here for a while can't stand to come to the boards anymore. There is nothing here like there once was. Where before we would have one or two dishonest individuals come around every so often, there are many more lately. Every once in a great while you'd get a person that just had to try to rub everyone the wrong way. Now that seems to be the norm. So you can understand why when new people come in with repetative comments on the same topics, long time members just "skim" them. I'm not saying that yours get skimmed, I was just saying that the way you are thinking about it makes people skip over the words.

Let me try to put an example to you this way. Say you really loved a certain park in your neighborhood. You used to be able to say hi to everyone there and spend a lot of time there just relaxing and being yourself. Everyone knew your name and you knew everyone else's name. Over time, the people stopped coming because of troublemakers in the park. You start spending less time there because you don't enjoy it as much. This goes on for a while. Are you suddenly just going to embrace everyone that walks into that park? Are you going to embrace people walking into that park blaming you for it's current condition? Probably not.

Anyway, that previous post probably didn't come across just as I had hoped, so it wasn't supposed to be interalized...it was just general things. Wasn't meant to be personal with you or anything. Sorry if it reads that way.
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Postby devilnuts » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:07 pm

devilnuts wrote:As for dabonsteed, I think that Drexel had emailed him a couple of times after he left the boards. He changed his password to something so random that he would never remember it (since he couldn't delete his own account). The only way he'd be coming back is if he made a new account...which I doubt will happen after this much time. I will have to ask Drexel if he's heard from him lately.


As for my "revisionist history"...hahaha...it's a bitch getting old. Evidently Drexel's contact with him was limited to a few contacts around the time dabonsteed left. But I remembered being told about the password change. Then I remembered, he posted that just before he left. Evidently, I combined memories...lmmfao. That's okay, I surgically separated those two. You may resume with whatever the hell it was that we were talking about. Oh yeah...soemthing about queers...rings...vows. I do believe that was the original intent of this thread. Seems we got sidetracked....

...look at the chicken...

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Postby nimby » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:46 am

devil nuts wrote:You three just proved why he (and many others) skim your posts. There are MANY people that skim your posts for reasons ranging from your tired lines about the evils of women to the latest conspiracy theories. Why would we want to read that? Isn't that what the Fantastic Forum is for? We don't want to see colors that contrast too little or too much with the background colors of the site. For many users of the board, it just isn't interesting listening to the same sh*t in every post in every thread. If you don't think that deserves skimming, then I don't know what does. Usually, I only read your posts far enough until you start saying the same sh*t again (Bush said this, media cover-up that, blah, blah, blah). The thing is, you would probably have more people agree with you if you didn't do that all the time. Obviously, since that is the only thing you can post, I know what you are about. Not someone that I'm into reading a whole lot of.

Take it for what it's worth and flame away. It won't be read by too many anyway.


If I was only concerned with having people agree with me, this might be a valid point.

Instead of a park, I look at it as more of a neighbourhood. It's vibrant when your young, but as you grow you become bored of your surroundings (and the people in it) and desire to move on. Your once vibrant community starts to decline into a slum that no one wants to enter. One day, some people move into the neighbourhood, notices the cool architectural detail (the bones of the community) and decides that, hey this could be a pretty cool place. So the small group tries to fix the place up and attract new people and new ideas to the neighbourhood. Although, some old timers resist and insult, it is successful. The old times hate it because it, "isn't like the old days". It's all different now. And the people aren't the same any more, so they pack off and move to Florida. Better climate. And the new citizens turn that old neighbourhood into a thriving, energizing community where new people and new ideas flourish. And just in case you didn't notice, It is happening all over the country. Literally.
Last edited by nimby on Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DeckApe » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:44 am

D'nuts--

I went back and re-read my post and realized that my snarky comment about gay theme bars was not only uncalled for, it wasn't a particularly good example. Tarring and feathering the whole community with the same brush wasn't fair, and for that I apologize.

Doctor Dan's post just hit a hot button with me, and came across as 'you haven't been here as long as I have, so your opinions will never be valid.' I don't think I was even aware of what thread I was in, so Bad DeckApe! Naughty DeckApe! Pay more attention to where you are! :lol:

But anyway, I digress.

The concept of marriage is overrated... someone on here said that it should be civil unions for all, and if their church wants to say a special word over it, fine and dandy. I like that approach.
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Postby nimby » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:35 am

DeckApe wrote:Doctor Dan's post just hit a hot button with me, and came across as 'you haven't been here as long as I have, so your opinions will never be valid. ...


That is precisely what was said, and precisely what he meant. No mistake about it.
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