The Republican Primary 2011-2012

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The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby Rico » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:07 pm

Okay...I'll start with Rick Perry. I will openly admit that in my opinion the guy is a hypocrite and a fraud, and serves best as a shill for the corporate and oil interests who support him. He has spent the last 30 years on the government payroll, yet to hear him talk, the government is the root of all evil in the world. I will also admit that he seems to have good political instincts and gets the popular support of many people. Can someone enlighten me as to why?

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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby nimby » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:48 pm

He's from Texas and everyone knows people from Texas don't lie. Remember Bush Jr? :lol:
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby madsglen » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:34 pm

Rico wrote: I will also admit that he seems to have good political instincts and gets the popular support of many people. Can someone enlighten me as to why?

Never underestimate the ability of a politician (and that's what he is, just like our President) to zero in on what people want to hear to get ahead, raise money and get the sound-bite. And he's very good at taking advantage of the current state of the Republican party. Facts are fluid and spin in mandatory. Unfortunately, people lately don't want to really do their own thinking (or fact-checking) in the age of Twitter and blogs as news ("I read or heard it, so it MUST be true - especially if it makes me feel good and I want to agree".) It appears that one nut-job's popularity is waning in favor of someone smarter who's done very well in a state where politics is a blood-sport. I suspect his time will come, too, once the real heat is on. If it wasn't so scary it would be really, really entertaining.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby Earl Butz » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:27 am

Oh man what a revolting bunch. The only one I like is Ron Paul, who everyone seems to dismiss as unelectable. Nice to see not everyone from Texas is a nutjob.

It was appalling the other night when everyone cheered the fact Perry has executed 254 people. I mean the whole audience applauded. Bloodthirsty middle class white people. Yuck. :roll:

At least he backtracked a little on Social Security tonight. He rolled out the lame sports cliches, and called it a "slam dunk" instead of a Ponzi scheme.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby Rico » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:41 pm

madsglen wrote:
Rico wrote: I will also admit that he seems to have good political instincts and gets the popular support of many people. Can someone enlighten me as to why?

Never underestimate the ability of a politician (and that's what he is, just like our President) to zero in on what people want to hear to get ahead, raise money and get the sound-bite. And he's very good at taking advantage of the current state of the Republican party. Facts are fluid and spin in mandatory. Unfortunately, people lately don't want to really do their own thinking (or fact-checking) in the age of Twitter and blogs as news ("I read or heard it, so it MUST be true - especially if it makes me feel good and I want to agree".) It appears that one nut-job's popularity is waning in favor of someone smarter who's done very well in a state where politics is a blood-sport. I suspect his time will come, too, once the real heat is on. If it wasn't so scary it would be really, really entertaining.

Thanks for the reply. Regardless of whether one agrees with a particular political philosophy or a specific public policy or not, I'll never understand why everyone seems to be entitled to their own set of facts. Even when caught red handed telling an outright lie or deliberately distorting a fact that is readily provable, there seems to be no consequence for telling the lie. I find that even more disturbing than the underlying philosophy.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby madsglen » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:26 pm

Rico wrote:I'll never understand why everyone seems to be entitled to their own set of facts. Even when caught red handed telling an outright lie or deliberately distorting a fact that is readily provable, there seems to be no consequence for telling the lie. I find that even more disturbing than the underlying philosophy.

So true, and again, so scary. These so-called debates are anything but. There really don't seem to be any consequences (yet) because there are so many outlets which need to fill their airtime and candidates (and other "pundits" and "experts") are more than happy to feed the beast. The false (or even half-true) statements get repeated airtime with scarcely a fraction of coverage to those who try to refute. Repeating the bad stuff just perpetuates it, mostly. Sadly, critical thinking is not looked upon as a virtue in our culture today. And coverage of a candidate who tries to take the time to rebut in a clear-headed, thoughtful way just hears "Next?".
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby nimby » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:33 pm

Remember, "facts" are very subjective, depending on who's presenting them. Tell the same lie often enough and it becomes a "fact." Funny how that works. And it's that lack of critical thinking that makes people feel entitled to their own set of facts. Sometimes a little too much education is a dangerous thing, especially when common sense gets thrown out the window. Post secondary education levels have never been higher, yet it seems people are getting dumber by the day, not having the foggiest idea how to communicate with one another. Communicate at one another, sure, but not with. :roll:
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby furface » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:21 pm

Michael; It's post secondary training you're seeing, not education. There is a difference, a very big difference.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby nimby » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:26 pm

furface wrote:Michael; It's post secondary training you're seeing, not education. There is a difference, a very big difference.

Yer, Sir. You are absolutely right. Point well taken.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby Rico » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:06 pm

Earl Butz wrote:Oh man what a revolting bunch. The only one I like is Ron Paul, who everyone seems to dismiss as unelectable. Nice to see not everyone from Texas is a nutjob.

Let's see...he's the one who indicated that an uninsured 30 yo in a coma should be refused medical treatment and be left to die because he was irresponsible and didn't purchase health insurance.

Unfortunately, there are too many irresponsible people like that 30 yo...thus the "mandate" to purchase insurance. That mandate caused apoplexy among the Republican party....."Repeal Obama care...it's the end of the world and freedom!" according to the Republicans. Forget about the fact that the "health insurance mandate" was originally a Republican idea...and a way to teach and enforce personal responsibility. Never mind that fact. If it happened more than 5 minutes ago, it's too long ago for the American people and press to remember.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby furface » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:31 pm

And when did the Republicans protest against mandatory auto insurance, and in some states mandatory no fault coverage for the same? I hears crickets.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby madsglen » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:32 pm

What I found appalling when I first saw the quote (admittedly in a "sound byte" segment by one of the best commentators around - Jon Stewart :wink: ) was when people in the audience actually cheered when he said it. Would those same people (some of whom probably don't have health insurance) feel the same if it was their brother or son or cousin or grandchild? And everyone conveniently forgot (I guess) that physicians and publicly funded hospitals are required to provide care, regardless of the victim's ability to pay. So if this guy ends up at a trauma center in most states he's going to get care, not be "allowed to die". And likely will go to some sort of public assistance for long-term care if he remains in a coma.

One of the thoughts I had after watching it was just how many of those cheering would howl in righteous indignation should someone decide to "pull the plug". Another thought was how embarrassed I am sometimes by some people in my own country, especially since there's no such thing as totally "local media" anymore and anything on a major cable channel like CNN is likely watched by more people around the world than here in the U.S. The whole world is watching.

I've depressed myself enough for the day.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby Rico » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:03 pm

madsglen wrote:... The whole world is watching.

They must think we're a bunch of idiots. I'd have to agree with them.

The Republicans have been quite successful in getting everyone (even the mainstream media) to refer to the Health Care Reform Bill as "Obamacare". The American people are against "Obamacare" but when you ask them whether or not they support the major provisions of the Heath Care Reform Bill....they (at least a large majority of them) support those provisions.

1. Health care subsidies and assistance to the estimated 32 million UNINSURED Americans. Saves money in the long run because everyone ends up paying when an uninsured person becomes ill and ends up in the ER in need of health care.
2. Insurance companies will be prohibited from denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions.
3. Insurers would be required to provide coverage for non-dependent children (i.e. parents who have kids in college or just getting started) up to age 26
4. Companies with more than 50 employees would be required to pay a fee of $2,000 per worker if the company does not provide coverage and any of that company’s workers receives federal health care subsidies. Walmart...listen up!
5. More emphasis on preventive care to save money. Isn't it more cost-effective to treat someone with high blood pressure, than pay for their care in a nursing home after they've had a stroke?

Those are just a few of the major provisions of the Health Care Reform Bill that when asked specifically about each provision...American people generally support. But when you ask them about "Obamacare"....that's scares them. Boo!

I've said before we are a nation of silly dumb asses. I stick by it.
Last edited by Rico on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:18 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby nimby » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:42 pm

Rico wrote:5. More emphasis on preventive care to save money. Isn't it more cost-effective to treat someone with high blood pressure, than pay for their care in a nursing home after they've had a stroke?

The only thing you're forgetting is that no one wants to cure disease. There is too much $$ being made off the sick. Cheap and dangerous chemicals are allowed in our foods that make us sick, then we are not healed but "managed" by big Pharma which run the hospitals, all under the watchful eyes of your government, the FDA. See how that works? All are connected.

People seem to forget. The main premise of business is to exploit the most abundant natural resources for maximum profit. And now the most abundant natural resource is people.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby Rico » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:30 pm

nimby wrote:People seem to forget. The main premise of business is to exploit the most abundant natural resources for maximum profit. And now the most abundant natural resource is people.

Reminds me of The Matrix. In that movie humans became a natural resource for machines, pacified and subdued, while their bodies' heat and electrical activity were used as an energy source. In the present time and not really fiction, humans are subdued and manipulated by the super rich and a few multi-national corporations. Not much difference IMNSHO.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby Rico » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:21 pm

Another Republican debate tonight sponsored by Fox News and held in Florida. I plan to watch. Why? Because I'm hoping that one of these days and during one of these Republican debates, Jesus will appear and actually slap these jackasses around for a bit, and order them to stop exploiting Him and His name. :wink:
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby nimby » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:28 pm

And some hecklers in the audience boo'd a gay soldier for asking a question via video. Don't these morons realize how stupid they look?
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby Rico » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:18 pm

nimby wrote:And some hecklers in the audience boo'd a gay soldier for asking a question via video. Don't these morons realize how stupid they look?

That's to be expected at events like this with hand-picked audiences, many of them looking for red meat. The fact that a few hecklers booed a gay soldier was bad. What was worse was the fact that not one of the Republican candidates took the opportunity to speak up and say that that kind of behavior was inappropriate. I found that more stupid than the actual heckling.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby olywaguy » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:52 pm

Goodness, what is going on with the GOP debates?

The audiences are full of Republicans instead of dividing it equally between Democrats and Republicans.

There is a lot of hot air going on in tonight's Western GOP debate while the Democrats just sit back and take all the Republican blundering. This is so frustrating. There is no one to countermand what the Republican idiots are saying.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby Earl Butz » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:24 am

Looks like it's down to the mormon and the pizza guy. I watched a bit of the debate. Still love everything Ron Paul says about dismantling the entire U.S. military and start paying off the deficit. Had to throw up though when Noot Gingrinch started talking about the importance of faith and our creator. The crowd must have been trucked in from a church across the street....they started drooling everytime religion was brought up.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby Rico » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:58 pm

olywaguy wrote:Goodness, what is going on with the GOP debates?

The audiences are full of Republicans instead of dividing it equally between Democrats and Republicans.

There is a lot of hot air going on in tonight's Western GOP debate while the Democrats just sit back and take all the Republican blundering. This is so frustrating. There is no one to countermand what the Republican idiots are saying.

It was a GOP debate so one can understand the GOP audience. As far as keeping the debaters honest and challenging them on the "facts"...that used to be the role of moderators and journalists. Journalists gave up that role a long time ago. The media has all the self-interest in the world to keep the pot boiling because after all, aren't they the primary beneficiaries of a majority of the campaign spending (media, TV ads, etc.)?
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby Earl Butz » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:32 am

Okay Herman Cain just lost my vote. He's a religious whacko who thinks being gay is a sin and a choice. :roll:

Too bad. I thought he had some funny things to say until now.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby Earl Butz » Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:49 am

Latest gem from Noot Gingrinch: Put 9 year olds to work cleaning the school and fire all the unionized janitors!

He thinks slave labor is the answer to curing poverty! Oh, what a brilliant idea! :roll:
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby Rico » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:59 am

With the exception of maybe John Huntsman, who isn't gaining much traction anywhere, this is the most clownish group of Republican Presidential candidates I've seen in my lifetime. To think that any one of them might be our next President is more than just outrageous, it's scary.
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Re: The Republican Primary 2011-2012

Postby madsglen » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:43 pm

Earl Butz wrote:Okay Herman Cain just lost my vote.... Too bad. I thought he had some funny things to say until now.

Since Michelle Bachmann is really a non-entity now (Praise the Lord!) and Cain's imploded, here's a nugget from him this week:

"America needs a leader, not a reader" If it wasn't so scary it would be (just a bit) funny.

Now it seems we'll move along to hearing all the baggage Newt Gingrich carries with him for a few days. And it looks like Ron Paul is "on deck". Yeah, learning more about Huntsman would be interesting but sadly most of the media seems to think of him as "Mitt-Lite" although from some of what I've read and seen in debates his stances seem more reasonable and considered (and backed up by his experiences at State as an ambassodor). Which, of course, dooms him.
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