The Wikileaks Affair

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The Wikileaks Affair

Postby Guinness Fan » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:15 pm

With the recent release of US State Department cables by Wikileaks, just wondering how you guys feel about the release...and what should be done about it...

Me; I think its a criminal offense and simply put, believe Mr. Assange should be prosecuted...
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Re: The Wikileaks Affair

Postby Earl Butz » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:35 am

Apparently he did it to expose what a bunch of corrupt bullshitters people are in general. I'm all for that. :lol:
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Re: The Wikileaks Affair

Postby madsglen » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:25 pm

I tend to disagree with you there. He's an anarchist and an opportunist, I think, not a crusader. And a narcissist. From what I've seen none of his actions were motivated by altruism or wanting to make the world a safer, better place. It would be might difficult to prosecute him, I'm afraid. But I hope someone they do just to make his life miserable. I'll be he takes every advantage of those 'rules' he doesn't agree with. He apparently has no concern about the affects of his actions or any appreciation for how things sometimes need to work in the real world. Are there things in the posts that make me uneasy and maybe question some things? Sure. But I think it was unconscionable of him to leak what should be privileged information, regardless of how much I might want to know or even have a right to know. Diplomacy is by it's very nature a world of give and take, subject to interpretation and degrees of gray. Sometimes it may be necessary to be a bit of a hypocrite in order to get what's necessary. BS is part of the process, even if it may seem counterproductive. Without it, the world would be a far more dangerous place, I'm afraid.

And the kid who allegedly leaked the information? If it's determined (through due process, of course) that he did get his mitts on all that information improperly he should get the effect of the full measure of the laws that apply, regardless of his motives. What he did was treason, pure and simple.
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Re: The Wikileaks Affair

Postby Earl Butz » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:13 am

I'm not sure exactly what his motives were....but I love people who like to stir up shitt. And there hasn't been anything too earth shattering that I've heard. Saudi Arabia wanted the U.S. to bomb Iran....that's the biggest thing I've heard so far.

We live in a bland world of b.s. most of the time. Children are the only ones who speak the truth without fear....until they're brainwashed to shut up. Pity.
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Re: The Wikileaks Affair

Postby Rico » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:45 pm

The most interesting thing I've heard is the one about Muammar Gaddafi and the fact that he almost never travels without his trusted Ukrainian nurse, Galina Kolotnytska, a “voluptuous blonde” with whom he is rumored to have a romantic relationship.

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Re: The Wikileaks Affair

Postby CO_RedRocker » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:32 pm

If anyone should be prosecuted it should be the newspapers for printing the information first... But I didn't see the FBI descend on the NYT, Der Speigel, or London Times when they got first dibs on the information and reported it before it was posted through Wikileaks.

That said, I was military intelligence (two words combined that can't make sense), and 99% of the information that is classified is done so to prevent embarrassment, not to protect lives or equipment. The recent State Department cables are proof that this is in fact the case.

In an ostensibly free Republic such as ours, our government should have few if any secrets anyway. Empires maintain secrets, especially from their population to keep them complacent. Some would argue we have no need or right to know this information, that we are reading it out of context, or that this information shouldn't be released as it will compromise our national security.

1. Don't read it if you don't want to know what's in it
2. Don't read it if you don't understand it and don't want to try to understand it
3. "National Security" is a myth, when that phrase is used, what is meant is security of our socio-economic elite and their property and means of making wealth.

The more we know about what OUR government does in OUR name around the world to further the interests of a few socio-economic elite, the better off we all are. If it were possible for the government to be totally honest with us, the conversation would go something like this:

"My fellow Americans. Today we will invest $700 trillion dollars into various global businesses and non governmental agencies to further the wealth of the top 1% of our nation. Hopefully, this investment will work it's way through our economy and will result in a 1% increase in the value of your paycheck while increasing the paychecks of the top 1% by almost 50%.

We will also begin a new war of aggression against ___ as our clandestine efforts to destabilize their government by funding rebel groups has proven futile since those groups have used that money instead to fund drug trafficking operations and now control the government from behind the scenes counter our interests, including building new military bases in the country to be better positioned to launch drone strikes against suspected terrorist groups, even though sometimes we accidentally kill civilians in these efforts. These rebels are also upset at this collateral damage on our part and have inflamed the populace against us, and are now actively recruiting terrorist fighters to strike our troops in ____.

Now, remember, we are in ___ because our efforts to control that brutal dictator there in exchange for lucrative resource contracts and vital military support in the region resulted in him turning against rebels in that country who expected our support, but we decided the time wasn't right yet to strike, so we allowed the dictator to kill off his people, these rebels previously funded by your tax dollars, without consequence at the time.

All that said, we will need to print an additional $1 quadrillion dollars to fund these and other operations around the world to maintain the wealth of the top 1% at their already astronomical levels. Likewise, we will need an additional 500,000 of your sons and daughters to willingly serve us for the next 4-8 years to accomplish these goals, and lord willing, die in the line of duty as it is cheaper than taking care of them for the rest of their lives.

We hope that you will wholeheartedly support these efforts, but if you oppose our goals, we will introduce new methods of population control developed by our various military/security contractors around the world to monitor your every move and log your every action to be used later against you when we feel that you pose a threat to our power and ability to ensure that the top 1% continue to enjoy their wealth and privileged at the expense of your grandchildren's economic future and the blood of your sons and daughters."

So if the government told you all that, I'm sure your response would be "Okie dokie boss! Whatever you say, so long as I have my American Idol and good old American junk food, I'm satisfied!"

... Sadly, I'm pessimistic enough to think the government probably could be that honest and the majority of the people wouldn't care...

By the way, bonus points to those people who can fill in the blanks above, those are all real scenarios by the way. Actually, the first one is based on three different countries, the second two are the same country.
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Re: The Wikileaks Affair

Postby CO_RedRocker » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:44 pm

madsglen wrote:And the kid who allegedly leaked the information? If it's determined (through due process, of course) that he did get his mitts on all that information improperly he should get the effect of the full measure of the laws that apply, regardless of his motives. What he did was treason, pure and simple.


So what if his actions brought criminal activities of our government to light? Is the government free to act criminally around the world without consequence on our behalf?

Try to use that in a court of law and see how well that goes over, "I'm sorry your honor, but I know I saw my buddy kill that guy, but I didn't think I needed to report it because it just seemed like what he was supposed to do, and besides, I don't know what my buddy was thinking, maybe he had a good reason for killing that guy?"

Why do we let the government get away with stuff the government doesn't allow us to get away with? If I can't go around killing people and bragging/joking about it later, why can the government? If I can't spy on diplomats and record highly sensitive personal details to build some dossier to be used against them later, why can the government?

If ANY of these leaks are proven conclusively to have put someone in harms way, fine, I oppose it. But if these leaks are merely of information classified to prevent embarrassment for some official or the government itself, then I've got no beef with those who leak that information. Show me someone who has died from the actions of Pfc Manning or Julian Assange and I will change my view on this. Until then, the argument that this hurts national security is totally bogus.

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"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason"
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Re: The Wikileaks Affair

Postby catapult » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:48 pm

I read that the Private who leaked the info is 23 and openly gay and was depressed and pissed off after a broken relationship and just felt like raising some Cain. This may set back DADT repeal a bit. He also had a bad relationship with his father. So perhaps he had a problem with authority and this is how he has rebelled.

I like that we see some truth coming out, but of course it would be responsible to hold back any leaks that would put other folks in danger. WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange claims they did their best to do that. Some of his leaks have saved lives and exposed corruption, deceit, diplomatic pressure and other abuses. It's a fine line.
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Re: The Wikileaks Affair

Postby CO_RedRocker » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:02 am

And add to that, Assange requested several times for the Defense and State departments to go through the cables with him to ensure that all potentially harmful information was removed (they of course refused). Likewise, his team of editors did the same with many of these cables. Finally, the newspapers were also given the opportunity to scrub any potentially dangerous information.

Could some harmful information have come through despite these efforts? Certainly possible. However, I find it hard to believe that the more recent documents, the State cables, have any information in them that would not be strictly diplomatic in nature. In other words, under cover agents, their names, and operations, are likely not discussed (that's more a CIA function anyway, not State). The war cables COULD have potentially harmful information, but they are also several years old. That's not to say some terrorist cell couldn't piece together some information, paint a picture, and find those individuals who collaborated with US Forces and allies.

In regards to the other point you raise, politically, DADT will end as the lame duck session is trying to ram through everything it can with it's last 2 weeks. I personally find that reprehensible (even though I oppose DADT as a HUGE waste of money) because they have been effectively fired. So the fact that Manning is gay is moot, it won't hamper the current path, and besides, there are a LOT of gay people in Intel for some reason. I never understood that one myself. So if they want to state that ending DADT will risk national security (again, that's a myth) then I just have to laugh because there are already so many gay people in Intel fields anyway.
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Re: The Wikileaks Affair

Postby catapult » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:22 am

Good points RR. You have a clear and coherent mind. A busy one, but a coherent one! You WILL find your mate. Just stay active in the things you like to do. To increase your odds, you just gotta go to some gay events or join some gay hiking, biking, running, gym, political, or other interest clubs. Or use technology to find someone - like you are doing here.

Hypnosis may help but have you tried meditation? Try TM - Transcendental Meditation. You will love the experience of transcending - going beyond all thought and just experiencing the silence and peace within. The result is you come out surcharged with energy and happiness. Deep rest does that. It's that natural.

And busy minds can do it to! :-) It's very easy, simple and effective. Not cheap, but much more structured, proven and effective than other methods of concentration or contemplation. Well worth the cost. Scholarships available if you can't afford it. GL Man.
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Re: The Wikileaks Affair

Postby nimby » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:04 pm

Assagne was captured today.
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Re: The Wikileaks Affair

Postby Guinness Fan » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:52 pm

An interesting article - well worth the read......

http://forums.malwarebytes.org/index.ph ... opic=69345

WikiChina Leaks

Op-Ed Columnist | From WikiChina
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN | Published: November 30, 2010

While secrets from WikiLeaks were splashed all over the American newspapers, I couldn’t help but wonder: What if China had a WikiLeaker and we could see what its embassy in Washington was reporting about America? I suspect the cable would read like this:

Washington Embassy, People’s Republic of China, to Ministry of Foreign Affairs Beijing, TOP SECRET/Subject: America today.

Things are going well here for China. America remains a deeply politically polarized country, which is certainly helpful for our goal of overtaking the U.S. as the world’s most powerful economy and nation. But we’re particularly optimistic because the Americans are polarized over all the wrong things.

There is a willful self-destructiveness in the air here as if America has all the time and money in the world for petty politics. They fight over things like — we are not making this up — how and where an airport security officer can touch them. They are fighting — we are happy to report — over the latest nuclear arms reduction treaty with Russia. It seems as if the Republicans are so interested in weakening President Obama that they are going to scuttle a treaty that would have fostered closer U.S.-Russian cooperation on issues like Iran. And since anything that brings Russia and America closer could end up isolating us, we are grateful to Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona for putting our interests ahead of America’s and blocking Senate ratification of the treaty. The ambassador has invited Senator Kyl and his wife for dinner at Mr. Kao’s Chinese restaurant to praise him for his steadfastness in protecting America’s (read: our) interests.

Americans just had what they call an “election.” Best we could tell it involved one congressman trying to raise more money than the other (all from businesses they are supposed to be regulating) so he could tell bigger lies on TV more often about the other guy before the other guy could do it to him. This leaves us relieved. It means America will do nothing serious to fix its structural problems: a ballooning deficit, declining educational performance, crumbling infrastructure and diminished immigration of new talent.

The ambassador recently took what the Americans call a fast train — the Acela — from Washington to New York City. Our bullet train from Beijing to Tianjin would have made the trip in 90 minutes. His took three hours — and it was on time! Along the way the ambassador used his cellphone to call his embassy office, and in one hour he experienced 12 dropped calls — again, we are not making this up. We have a joke in the embassy: “When someone calls you from China today it sounds like they are next door. And when someone calls you from next door in America, it sounds like they are calling from China!” Those of us who worked in China’s embassy in Zambia often note that Africa’s cellphone service was better than America’s.

But the Americans are oblivious. They travel abroad so rarely that they don’t see how far they are falling behind. Which is why we at the embassy find it funny that Americans are now fighting over how “exceptional” they are. Once again, we are not making this up. On the front page of The Washington Post on Monday there was an article noting that Republicans Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee are denouncing Obama for denying “American exceptionalism.” The Americans have replaced working to be exceptional with talking about how exceptional they still are. They don’t seem to understand that you can’t declare yourself “exceptional,” only others can bestow that adjective upon you.

In foreign policy, we see no chance of Obama extricating U.S. forces from Afghanistan. He knows the Republicans will call him a wimp if he does, so America will keep hemorrhaging $190 million a day there. Therefore, America will lack the military means to challenge us anywhere else, particularly on North Korea, where our lunatic friends continue to yank America’s chain every six months so that the Americans have to come and beg us to calm things down. By the time the Americans do get out of Afghanistan, the Afghans will surely hate them so much that China’s mining companies already operating there should be able to buy up the rest of Afghanistan’s rare minerals.

Most of the Republicans just elected to Congress do not believe what their scientists tell them about man-made climate change. America’s politicians are mostly lawyers — not engineers or scientists like ours — so they’ll just say crazy things about science and nobody calls them on it. It’s good. It means they will not support any bill to spur clean energy innovation, which is central to our next five-year plan. And this ensures that our efforts to dominate the wind, solar, nuclear and electric car industries will not be challenged by America.

Finally, record numbers of U.S. high school students are now studying Chinese, which should guarantee us a steady supply of cheap labor that speaks our language here, as we use our $2.3 trillion in reserves to quietly buy up U.S. factories. In sum, things are going well for China in America.

Thank goodness the Americans can’t read our diplomatic cables.

Embassy Washington.
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Re: The Wikileaks Affair

Postby deewany » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:45 am

Why is the US corporate media is attacking Wikileaks this is insane? I'm I in the twilight. I thought we as Americans should have the right to know this info about the true horror of war. ABC "news" should be ashamed of itself for attacking wikileaks.
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