November Elections

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Re: November Elections

Postby UnRepublicanstraightactor » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:01 pm

Rico wrote:Oh...I knew that. My headache and frustration wasn't directed at you. I certainly know that you pay attention.


Awwwwwwwwwwww... you say the sweetest things... got any more where that one came from? :wink:
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Re: November Elections

Postby Phoenix6570 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:32 am

Rico wrote:Oh...I knew that. My headache and frustration wasn't directed at you. I certainly know that you pay attention.

It was the notion that a greater proportion voting age young people regularly cast votes in "Dancing With the Stars" and "American Idol" than cast votes in U.S. political elections that gave me a headache. The simple thought of that wants me to put a butcher's knife to my throat, but I won't.

Better yet....I hope the USA reinstates the draft, and puts real guns with real bullets in the the youngsters ipod shaped hands, and ships them off to a nasty war in the Middle East or wherever in the world. Then I bet they'll vote. :lol:


Do you really think that's the best way to go about it? Maybe we should examine all of the reasons why young people decide not to vote. I agree many of the answers will be unreasonable but is shipping us off to a potential war really the answer? I for one believe war is wrong and is the worst solution to a conflict. I'm young so I have a particular interest in this statement.

I agree that young people should be more interested in political issues and how it realistically effects our lives. However I think this statement can be applied to a wide array of people and not just the youth. I believe people as a whole should pay more attention to whats going on in worldly affairs and the youth shouldn't be exclusively targeted. While we may have our focus in the wrong areas dying in foolish wars isn't a good solution in eyes. It may get some to realize the importance of voting, but i think we can help people to realize the importance of voting without death taking place.
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Re: November Elections

Postby Rico » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:07 am

Phoenix6570 wrote:Do you really think that's the best way to go about it?

Umm..no. That was probably desperation and frustration with a little hyperbole thrown in for good measure. :wink:

But seriously, what's the answer? It was the draft and the threat of being shipped off to Vietnam that significantly motivated the youth in the 60's and ealry 70's. Their involvement led to all sorts of social change that we take for granted today: civil rights, voting rights, youth vote (it used to be 21!), desegregation of schools, etc.

Even when their own self-interests are at stake, it doesn't seem to matter. Example: A provision in the health care reform bill allows adult children to remain on their parents' group health insurance policies until age 26. That's a significant benefit for families with kids in college, or other young adults who are just entering the workforce probably into lower-paying jobs without health coverage. Now that provision faces repeal based on the results of the mid-term elections.

Researchers have found that it's the "excitement" factor that tends to motivate the youth vote. What can be more exciting than the threat of being shipped off to war? I don't know the answer.
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Re: November Elections

Postby UnRepublicanstraightactor » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:17 pm

Rico wrote:Example: A provision in the health care reform bill allows adult children to remain on their parents' group health insurance policies until age 26. That's a significant benefit for families with kids in college, or other young adults who are just entering the workforce probably into lower-paying jobs without health coverage. Now that provision faces repeal based on the results of the mid-term elections.


Nah, it won't be repealed and neither will any other positive provision in the health care reform. Scott Brown's compromise solution, to offer states an expedited option to opt out if they can get their own house in the order without the federal mandate, seems to be the only thing that will go forward any time soon.
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Re: November Elections

Postby Rico » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:43 pm

UnRepublicanstraightactor wrote:Nah, it won't be repealed and neither will any other positive provision in the health care reform. Scott Brown's compromise solution, to offer states an expedited option to opt out if they can get their own house in the order without the federal mandate, seems to be the only thing that will go forward any time soon.

Okay, we'll wait and see. According to Rick Perry today, Texas wants to be first in line in terms of states opting out. He admits to leading a state in which 25 percent of his fellow citizens live without health insurance, so that might be something worth watching. I'll stay tuned.
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Re: November Elections

Postby Phoenix6570 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:35 pm

Rico wrote:
Phoenix6570 wrote:Do you really think that's the best way to go about it?

Umm..no. That was probably desperation and frustration with a little hyperbole thrown in for good measure. :wink:

But seriously, what's the answer? It was the draft and the threat of being shipped off to Vietnam that significantly motivated the youth in the 60's and early 70's. Their involvement led to all sorts of social change that we take for granted today: civil rights, voting rights, youth vote (it used to be 21!), desegregation of schools, etc.

Even when their own self-interests are at stake, it doesn't seem to matter. Example: A provision in the health care reform bill allows adult children to remain on their parents' group health insurance policies until age 26. That's a significant benefit for families with kids in college, or other young adults who are just entering the workforce probably into lower-paying jobs without health coverage. Now that provision faces repeal based on the results of the mid-term elections.

Researchers have found that it's the "excitement" factor that tends to motivate the youth vote. What can be more exciting than the threat of being shipped off to war? I don't know the answer.


I was trying to think of ways that would influence the youth to be more involved with our government. Perhaps we can start something in the school systems. Mandatory political classes that start when kids enter middle school and end upon graduation. That way they're exposed to it at a young age and can be shown how it really is important over an extended period of time. I know something like this would probably create issues since parents wouldn't want a specific agenda being forced on their child, but If done properly it could work.

Teachers would gather bills and laws being proposed and the class would partake in discussions about their effects. They could follow certain bills decided by the class and see how it turns out. Also teachers could present laws that have already gone into effect and examine how it actually affected the people. I believe this type of approach could be effective in getting the youth more involved. They would be more exposed and actively see that being involved really does make a difference.
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Re: November Elections

Postby Rico » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:46 am

Phoenix6570 wrote:I was trying to think of ways that would influence the youth to be more involved with our government. Perhaps we can start something in the school systems....


Good point and backed up by a 2007 Harvard University study about civics education in our high schools which is still relevant today.
http://www.gse.harvard.edu/news_events/ed/2007/winter/features/geography.html

Last year, when the National Geographic Society surveyed 18- to 24-year-old Americans to find out what they knew about the world, only 37 percent could find Iraq on a map, despite the fact that U.S. troops have been in that country since 2003. (Places closer to home didn't fare much better: 50 percent couldn't locate New York, the country's third largest state.)...

"A decade ago, the average high school student took three civics courses in order to graduate. Now it's just one, and it's usually taught in the last year.


Working civics back into the public school system is more problematic than ever because all sides (especially the fringe groups) have their own political agenda concerning how history should be presented. I think that's why most school boards have moved into the purely generic view of American and world history, and students leave school knowing less than ever.

I'm still thinking that bringing back the draft (or mandating some form of national service) would be a quicker fix to motivate their interest in government. There's another reason that reinstating the draft might benefit the country: it might make us think long and hard before we send our young folks off to fight in strange places. Those who make such decisions usually don't have their own children at risk. They stay safely at home while others go off to do the fighting. If those responsible for making such decisions knew that their own children were at risk, then it might make them think twice.
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Re: November Elections

Postby UnRepublicanstraightactor » Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:47 pm

Rico wrote:Working civics back into the public school system is more problematic than ever because all sides (especially the fringe groups) have their own political agenda concerning how history should be presented.


It's actually not impossible to do without an insane degree of controversy. For instance, there could be a class in which all the workings of the federal government could be covered. People would know how many members of the Senate, House of Representatives and how long a term for members of Congress and the President etc, last, working all the way down to local government. Then students could be educated as to who the current representatives are for the school district members are attending for all said local/state/federal offices. Students could also be educated as to how old you have to be to run for said offices. They could also be given the history of every major piece of legislation that has ever passed and which ones passed more closely and which passed more overwhelmingly. It would be a good start and may lead to more students getting interested and prepped, come voting age.
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Re: November Elections

Postby olywaguy » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:48 pm

At the college I work at, I have sort of become the unofficial civics leader. I send emails to the faculty, staff, and students reminding them to register to vote, coordinate voter registration drives, have public viewings of major elections like the recent midterms and presidential elections.

At one time, I taught a government documents class for a library technician program at a community college an hour from me. The first week of classes, I taught the three branches of government, the terms of office for president, congressmen and senators, how many were in each house of congress, etc. Some of them knew it and just needed their memories jostled while others just didn't have a clue. Instead of having a final exam, I gave them a quarter long project. Each student would pick a cabinet level department and tell me its mission, functions, who was the head of it, what agencies were under each department, etc.

I became an American citizen in 2000 and here I am teaching natural born American citizens about their own country...ironic isn't it?
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Re: November Elections

Postby furface » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:25 pm

olywaguy wrote:I became an American citizen in 2000 and here I am teaching natural born American citizens about their own country...ironic isn't it?
Actually to me it's sad. Back in the 60s when I was in high school we were taught all that, now it seems all public education does is teach to the test, actual education seems almost incidental.

I'm always shocked, and more than a little dismayed, at both the lack of basic knowledge and critical thinking skills imparted to today's youth. They can tell ya every lyric to every Beyonce song, but can't name any of their elected representatives, municipal on up. Can't find Iraq on a map, but know the topography of World of Warcraft in minute detail.

I know, I know; I'm old.

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Re: November Elections

Postby furface » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:51 pm

This may answer my concerns. Fox News cites an Onion story as real news

Fair, Balanced, and Professional. Right!!!! :shock: :roll:
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Re: November Elections

Postby Rico » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:19 am

furface wrote:I'm always shocked, and more than a little dismayed, at both the lack of basic knowledge and critical thinking skills imparted to today's youth. They can tell ya every lyric to every Beyonce song, but can't name any of their elected representatives, municipal on up. Can't find Iraq on a map, but know the topography of World of Warcraft in minute detail.

It's not only critical thinking/problem solving skills that are missing. A recent survey of employers across the U.S. concluded that high school (and college) graduates also lack training in other basic skills essential to success in the workplace. These include: (1) professional/work ethic skills, (2) oral and written communication skills, and (3) team work/collaboration skills.

In my job I'm often involved in our summer intern programs and in the past have had responsibility for hiring new workers out of college. Sometimes I wonder how some of these folks managed to find the place let alone graduate from high school and college. It's a heavy burden to place on employers having to train new employees on these basic skills. I know there are exceptions out there, and many do find their way into the workplace prepared. It still helps one understand why so many jobs continue to move overseas.
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Re: November Elections

Postby Rico » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:49 pm

Guinness Fan wrote:I'd start a poll ~ but I'm computer challenged & haven't got a clue on how to do that...will take the stubby pencil approach.....

With the November U.S. elections for Senate, House, Govenor & local issues around the corner, just wondering which ticket in GENERAL you'll be voting; Republican, Democrat, Independent...

Me; Republican

I like the way you initiate discussions on the boards...I really do. Let me ask you one question back based on your answer above: Why Republican?
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Re: November Elections

Postby Guinness Fan » Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:11 pm

^^
Good question Rico and a rather difficult one to answer in ten thousand words or less... I cast my vote for the person & their stance on issues, not simply for the party ~ but in general terms, I'd characterize myself as a fiscally conservative Republican.

As the old saying goes; "if change makes you nervous, you're probably a Republican". I guess that fits me...I've always been a believer that history is much more than mere "history" ~ it should be consulted as a roadmap for the future & the way the country is governed.

In my experience, Republicans tend to like to keep things as they are, or perhaps turn back time if they could. As a general characterizaion, Republicans tend to be conservative by most measures, aren't as eager for reform or "change" as Democrats, believe that the "system" shouldn't be severly tinkered or tampered with and that government should remain small and out of the picture.
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Re: November Elections

Postby Rico » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:17 pm

Guinness Fan wrote:^^
Good question Rico and a rather difficult one to answer in ten thousand words or less... I cast my vote for the person & their stance on issues, not simply for the party ~ but in general terms, I'd characterize myself as a fiscally conservative Republican.

As the old saying goes; "if change makes you nervous, you're probably a Republican". I guess that fits me...I've always been a believer that history is much more than mere "history" ~ it should be consulted as a roadmap for the future & the way the country is governed.

In my experience, Republicans tend to like to keep things as they are, or perhaps turn back time if they could. As a general characterizaion, Republicans tend to be conservative by most measures, aren't as eager for reform or "change" as Democrats, believe that the "system" shouldn't be severly tinkered or tampered with and that government should remain small and out of the picture.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. I don't like ten-thousand word posts either....so I'll keep this short.

I was a college Republican at one time, and thought all the same things. Over the years I changed my perspective, and never looked back. I don't see history as a road map to the future, but rather a view of lessons learned and bad times not to be repeated. I would not turn back the clock especially in three areas.

The Republicans originally opposed Social Security in 1935. But despite all its flaws, it has has reduced elderly poverty from 50 percent in 1935 to 11 percent today. Can you imagine what it was like living in 1935 before Social Security....when half the elderly population were impoverished? Make room for mom, dad, grandma, grandpa at home. Better figure out a way to feed and clothe them too. Also, don't forget their medical care while you're at it. That will take a good chunk of change from your purse.

The Republicans opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Want to go back there?

The Republicans opposed the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Want to go back there?

Yea, change is messy but sometimes it's necessary as we progress as a society. Personally, I'm comfortable financially and Republican fiscal policies might benefit me as well. But when I look at Republican social policies, I get a sick feeling in my stomach, and I'm not willing to turn the clock back, regardless of the financial costs to me. To do so would make me feel unbearably selfish, and I'd have a hard time looking at myself in the mirror every morning.
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Re: November Elections

Postby Guinness Fan » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:04 am

^^ Well said ~ Sounds like we need a Beer Summit!! :)
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Re: November Elections

Postby Rico » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:43 pm

Guinness Fan wrote:^^ Well said ~ Sounds like we need a Beer Summit!! :)


Good idea! I'm a great fan of Guiness! Maybe after a bunch of those followed by the Bailey's I'll bring for us to have for dessert, I'll have a chance of converting you into a certified liberal-progressive! :wink:
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Re: November Elections

Postby Guinness Fan » Sat Dec 04, 2010 6:41 pm

^^ I debate much better after a few pints of Guinness :lol: First round is on me!
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Re: November Elections

Postby Rico » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:14 pm

Guinness Fan wrote:^^ I debate much better after a few pints of Guinness :lol: First round is on me!

After reading the article you just posted in the Wiki thread, and since you already answered the question "Why you voted Republican?", at the "beer summit" my first question to you will be "Any regrets since then?"
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Re: November Elections

Postby Guinness Fan » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:02 pm

Regrets? Nope ~ none... With that opening salvo, I foresee a helluva hangover though! :D
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Re: November Elections

Postby nimby » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:07 pm

I think that the reason most people don't like change is because it causes friction. But those people fail to realize that friction is fundamenal to our very existance. Without friction, nothing would/could ever be accomplished. :(
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Re: November Elections

Postby Rico » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:18 pm

Guinness Fan wrote:Regrets? Nope ~ none... With that opening salvo, I foresee a helluva hangover though! :D

I don't think you'd have a serious hangover because it would probably be a very brief summit. I'd likely throw something at you, hit you over the head with an empty pint glass, and then get tossed out of the place, or worse arrested and carted off by the SPTE. :lol:

Seriously, I really don't have the temperament for political discussions here, and it's for that reason I try not to post here. The few times I've ever gotten into trouble with the mods have usually been the result of a post of mine in this section. That's why I'm going to back off politics here for a while. I'm too passionate about these things and lack sufficient self-control. My posts tend to be strident. I like and respect you and other folks here too much to let politics get in the way of the real reason I choose to hang out here in SA so much.

I hope you enjoy your republicanism as it's currently defined by those you helped elect. Slán go maith (at least in this section).

Edited to add a parting salvo: It may be unfair, but I've always viewed gay Republicans as a selfish bunch. Somewhat like: "I've got mine. I'm safe. fu** the rest of you." I'm sure the actual list is longer, but enjoy the Republican Hypocrites Hall of Fame:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/the-republican-hypocrites-hall-of-fame/Content?oid=4320885
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Re: November Elections

Postby olywaguy » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:26 am

Take a look at the new members of Congress Pictorial Directory for the new 112th Congress.

Want to know the real reason so many Republicans won election?...they were just better looking.
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Re: November Elections

Postby Guinness Fan » Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:09 am

^^ Wow Carlos, you're right...there's a few that would DEFINITELY make C-Span prime time viewing...
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Re: November Elections

Postby UnRepublicanstraightactor » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:40 pm

olywaguy wrote:Take a look at the new members of Congress Pictorial Directory for the new 112th Congress.

Want to know the real reason so many Republicans won election?...they were just better looking.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Not so much. At best, there's just a handful of lookers in that directory, and of the ones there are, not all are even Republicans, although I'll admit most are -- but then again, most of the new members are Republicans, so it's not exactly a fair observation to make.
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