Resist the Religious Reich

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Resist the Religious Reich

Postby Learning » Tue May 11, 2010 5:18 am

Sarah Palin claims that "American law should be 'based on the God of the Bible and the ten commandments.'" Unfortunately, some of the American public don't recognize the problems in her proposal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/1 ... 69922.html
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Re: Resist the Religious Reich

Postby Earl Butz » Thu May 13, 2010 6:26 am

Sarah Palin thinks? :lol:
A hard man is good to find!
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Think

Postby Learning » Thu May 20, 2010 3:57 pm

Earl Butz wrote:Sarah Palin thinks? :lol:


That's asking a lot from a lipstick wearing pitbull, but some thought would help. Religious authoritarians with assumptions unchecked by evidence and logic have a history of causing problems. To carefully consider the facts, options, consequences, and feelings of people affected by issues gives the better chance of creating sensible policies.
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Religious Excuses for Bigotry

Postby Learning » Wed May 26, 2010 6:53 am

Here's a potent quote from Norm R. Allen, Jr. about the potential for religion to excuse and promote bigotry:

"Saying that the Bible and Qur'an do not influence people to be sexist, homophobic, intolerant, and the like is like saying Mein Kampf did not influence Nazism or anti-Semitic biogtry. The only difference is that Mein Kampf is not a sacred text exempt from criticism in the public mind."

from "Do Negative 'Sacred' Teachings Influence Theists?" in Free Inquiry, June/July 2010, p. 50.

The serious question that needs to be asked is not how should these books be interpreted, but why give those books authority at all? Why should people substitute their own judgments of what's kind, reasonable, and fair for the opinions of people from the Bronze Age?
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Re: Resist the Religious Reich

Postby butch » Wed May 26, 2010 11:00 pm

I think I've made it clear, in previous posts, that I think there is nothing more evil nor disgusting than religion itself... all religion. Nothing promotes intolerance, hatred, bigotry, and injustice more than organized religion... so I don't have a drop of sympathy for religions of any kind. I reluctantly entered a church a few years ago to attend a funeral service for a friend, but mostly I consider churches to be evil places with evil intentions and refuse to enter them.
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The Outsider Test

Postby Learning » Thu May 27, 2010 5:40 am

I appreciate your willingness to take an honest look at religious claims and practices, Butch. More people need to look at their religion as an outsider would. People need to ask what evidence there is for these claims and how are these beliefs and practices hurtful. John Loftus calls this the "Outsider Test." You might enjoy his book The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails.
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Ignorance on Republican Website

Postby Learning » Thu May 27, 2010 5:42 am

This report does not come from The Onion but from the Washington Post and illustrates shocking ignorance on the part of Republican supporters.
Here's a quote to illustrate:

"A 'teacher' told my child in class that dolphins were mammals and not fish!" a third complains. "And the same thing about whales! We need TRADITIONAL VALUES in all areas of education. If it swims in the water, it is a FISH. Period! End of Story."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 96_pf.html
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Re: Ignorance on Republican Website

Postby nimby » Thu May 27, 2010 10:22 am

Learning wrote:"A 'teacher' told my child in class that dolphins were mammals and not fish!" a third complains. "And the same thing about whales! We need TRADITIONAL VALUES in all areas of education. If it swims in the water, it is a FISH. Period! End of Story."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 96_pf.html

:shock: I swim in the water. Am I a fish too?
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Re: Resist the Religious Reich

Postby butch » Thu May 27, 2010 4:18 pm

When someone calls a dolphin a fish you know you are dealing with the most ignorant of the ignorant and the dumbest of the dumb. The world is completely over run with such types. And that's why I'm so reclusive and so bitchy all the time. Beam me up Scotty... get me out of this hell hole. Oh well. My days are numbered anyways. :?

I noticed, today, that in a report on the most livable cities that not a single American city made the top 25. That has to say SOMETHING about the American way of life. Vancouver was #4, in the world, on this latest survey. I've been thinking on and off that maybe I should move back to Toronto, but I would really miss the mountains and the ocean and Vancouver, in spite of it's terrible public transit, is easy to get around because you don't have to go that far. In Toronto, the Beaches are as far away from downtown as deepest suburbia in Vancouver.
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Safe Cities

Postby Learning » Sun May 30, 2010 6:45 am

butch wrote:When someone calls a dolphin a fish you know you are dealing with the most ignorant of the ignorant and the dumbest of the dumb. The world is completely over run with such types. And that's why I'm so reclusive and so bitchy all the time. Beam me up Scotty... get me out of this hell hole. Oh well. My days are numbered anyways. :?

I noticed, today, that in a report on the most livable cities that not a single American city made the top 25. That has to say SOMETHING about the American way of life. Vancouver was #4, in the world, on this latest survey. I've been thinking on and off that maybe I should move back to Toronto, but I would really miss the mountains and the ocean and Vancouver, in spite of it's terrible public transit, is easy to get around because you don't have to go that far. In Toronto, the Beaches are as far away from downtown as deepest suburbia in Vancouver.


Sure, people do lots of dumb things. And sometimes those dumb things create problems for others.

Vancouver and Toronto both have a lot to offer. If you're looking for people who are not religious and who are welcoming to gay people, Montréal has a lot of them.
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Ted Haggard's Latest Public Relations Moves

Postby Learning » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:56 pm

Ted Haggard announced that he's formed a new church in Colorado Springs. Ted claims that the church is for "broken people" and that he's qualified to help people through difficult life challenges. He claims that he doesn't "judge people" anymore, but does compare being gay to being poor, overweight, having a health problem, needing pills or surgery, having a bad temper, or otherwise falling short of being "ideal." Ted could use some encouragement to make fair judgements of actions and claims.

http://advocate.com/video.aspx?pl=1279104&pro=1282125
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Strong Secular Support for LGBT People

Postby Learning » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:39 pm

The month of June is Pride Month for people with different sexual orientations and gender identities. Although many churches have become welcoming congregations, I would like to explain why I think that secular humanism's naturalistic, rational approach still offers a stronger basis for supporting Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgendered people.


Most religions have in some way supported oppression of people with different sexual orientations and gender identities. For example, I Corinthians chapter 6 has been translated at times to condemn effeminate people and to condemn gay people. A gay friendly person who assumes that the Bible is a moral authority is left to argue against the obvious. To claim that the Bible doesn’t really mean what it says or that certain passages are irrelevant puts the gay friendly person on shaky ground. Odds are that the ancient Middle Eastern authors of the Bible held many views that we would not consider kind or reasonable today.

To point out the hypocrisies of homophobic opponents who ignore other passages from the Bible still does not question the underlying assumption of the Bible’s moral authority.

Even if a God, Bible, or religion could reach agreement on any moral issue, there would still be questions of what makes that conclusion right and of what makes that God, Bible, or religion good. Surely, an all-knowing, all-good God, Bible, or religion would have really good reasons for any conclusion. If so, what would those reasons be?

To settle moral questions objectively, we need to look at what harm comes from an action. When we look at the facts, options, consequences, and feelings of people affected by an issue, we can find good reasons for moral conclusions. That's how secular humanists decide things.

Here’s what is apparent: 

Hateful and discriminatory actions toward Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgendered people cause unnecessary harm. Being Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgendered does not cause harm. Therefore, hateful and discriminatory actions toward Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgendered people are immoral. To have a more kind and reasonable world, we need to have justice, freedom, and equality for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgendered people.

Real harms done to people should get more moral concern than the alleged wishes of invisible supernatural beings or contradiction ridden scripture.
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Re: Resist the Religious Reich

Postby exairman » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:54 pm

Wonderfully spoken bit of utilitarian ethics.
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Ethics v. Bible

Postby Learning » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:05 pm

exairman wrote:Wonderfully spoken bit of utilitarian ethics.


Thank you. It's not necessarily easy to justify moral conclusions. My own argument is open to debate on points such as whether harm is relevant to morality, whether harm is being done, and whether that harm is necessary.

Still this much is clear: divine approval or disapproval by itself does not make something moral or immoral, and saying "the Bible says..." or "what the Bible really means is..." also fails.
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Re: Resist the Religious Reich

Postby Gaydudelaf » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:02 am

------------------------------------------------------
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Humor

Postby Learning » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:47 am

Gaydudelaf wrote:This thread reminded me of this

http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicken/lighten-up-moses.html


Ha. Thanks Gaydudelaf. PZ Myers has said that humor is one of the best weapons against religious nonsense.
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Jonah

Postby Learning » Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:50 am

Survivors of "ex-gay" treatment report that the Jewish group Jonah has been asking gay people to strip in front of a mirror and touch themselves to get in touch with their masculinity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsMgRUMF ... _embedded#!
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Re: Jonah

Postby butch » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:05 pm

Learning wrote:Survivors of "ex-gay" treatment report that the Jewish group Jonah has been asking gay people to strip in front of a mirror and touch themselves to get in touch with their masculinity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsMgRUMF ... _embedded#!


Every time I think I've heard of every really stupid, stupid idea, humans show me, yet again, how incredibly IDIOTIC their ideas can be.

I'm beside myself thinking how over the top stupid, dumb, ridiculous, and idiotic this concept (touching oneself to become "straight" by getting in touch with one's masculinity) is. I don't like to presume, but I will... I'm guessing there are very few men who have problems with frequently touching and feeling themselves. Baby boys do it so much their mothers have to tell them "not in public dear".

Truly, truly ludicrous... the most stupid thing I've heard of lately, except my getting kicked out of a pool for making video last Friday (there are no regulations at Vancouver outdoor pools regarding photography of any kind).
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Re: Jonah

Postby Learning » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:59 pm

butch wrote:
Learning wrote:Survivors of "ex-gay" treatment report that the Jewish group Jonah has been asking gay people to strip in front of a mirror and touch themselves to get in touch with their masculinity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsMgRUMF ... _embedded#!


Every time I think I've heard of every really stupid, stupid idea, humans show me, yet again, how incredibly IDIOTIC their ideas can be.


Yes. These ex-gay coaches are the creationists of modern psychology. Unquestioned religious assumptions often interfere.
The stories from the Jonah survivors imply that the ex-gay coaches were sexually interested in the ex-gays because the stripping and getting in touch were done in front of the ex-gay coaches.

Following the theme of ex-gay coaches being closet cases, the comedy movie "Eating Out 2" takes a light-hearted look at the ex-gay movement in an organization they call "Homo No More."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJIauU-tURI
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Faulty Religious Assumptions Disrupting Congress

Postby Learning » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:36 pm

Recent Congressional discussion about immigration reform has included debate about what the Bible dictates for immigration policy. Rather than questioning whether the Bible should be used as an authority, people debated the meaning of scripture. Really, it's not how people take the Bible but whether they take it. The dictates of the ancient authors of the Bible shouldn't be taken as an authority over what makes sense for people to do here and now.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/39938.html


Calling these people "extremists" doesn't really address the problem. The problem is that they have unproven and mistaken assumptions not that they are sincere in their beliefs. Here is a video showing what happens in Congress when people's unproven religious assumptions go unquestioned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viHcNGfB ... 1&index=33
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Glenn Beck in D.C.

Postby Learning » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:13 pm

Glenn Beck has organized a rally in Washington where he's been calling for "restoring honor" and for Americans to "turn back to God." Does Beck's rally look like trouble to anyone?

http://www.glennbeck.com/
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/08/28/ ... index.html
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Re: Resist the Religious Reich

Postby backpacker » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:06 pm

While I don't agree politically with Becks message, it was his right to organize the rally. I think his purpose was to further an agenda by scaring people and people will fall for it, unfortunately.
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Re: Resist the Religious Reich

Postby outstraight » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:20 pm

The only reason the Democrats are going to have their ass handed to them is because the Republicans are enthusiastic about voting. That's understandable, since the Democrats have been let down by their party. But if there's any chance of those religious bastards being defeated, it means you have to do whatever it takes to get to the polls and take as many people with you as possible. I know a lot of people want to teach the Democrats a lesson and let them lose an election to show them that their base means business, but that's not the way we should be thinking. Just try to remember what things were like under Bush and ask yourself if you really want to go back to that.
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Re: Resist the Religious Reich

Postby backpacker » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:06 pm

outstraight wrote:The only reason the Democrats are going to have their ass handed to them is because the Republicans are enthusiastic about voting. That's understandable, since the Democrats have been let down by their party. But if there's any chance of those religious bastards being defeated, it means you have to do whatever it takes to get to the polls and take as many people with you as possible. I know a lot of people want to teach the Democrats a lesson and let them lose an election to show them that their base means business, but that's not the way we should be thinking. Just try to remember what things were like under Bush and ask yourself if you really want to go back to that.


I agree, we still need to vote. I've supported the democrats and their ideas and they will always have my vote. I understand some aren't as loyal but I think more has been done and will be done while we have control.
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Religion Based Hate Propaganda

Postby Learning » Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:33 pm

Atheists have been leaders in challenging unkind and unreasonable actions and abuses done through Christianity. The work of atheists to promote justice is putting atheists themselves under attack.

Herr Ratzinger has been spreading hate propaganda in Britain making a misleading association between atheists and Nazis.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/se ... -extremism

However, the facts indicate that "Joseph Ratzinger joined the Hitler Youth in 1941 when, according to him and his supporters, it became compulsory for all German boys."

http://atheism.about.com/od/benedictxvi ... erNazi.htm

Also, Glenn Beck gave Rabbi Lapin gleeful grins as Rabbi Lapin claimed that "atheists are parasites." Rabbi Lapin should know better given the things that were said about Jewish people in the Nazi propaganda film "The Eternal Jew."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pU1UD7UzEY
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