How large is the Straight-Acting population in the U.S.?

Discussion on what it means to be straight acting, whether it's good, bad or indifferent.

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How large is the Straight-Acting population in the U.S.?

Less than 1% of the male population
3
11%
2-5%
3
11%
6-9%
1
4%
10-14%
2
7%
15-19%
6
21%
20%-24%
3
11%
25%-29%
1
4%
30%-34%
0
No votes
35-39%
1
4%
More than 40%
8
29%
 
Total votes : 28

How large is the Straight-Acting population in the U.S.?

Postby Donovan » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:04 am

How large is the Straight-Acting gay men population in the U.S.?
Even though we only have 4500 registered users here, I know that the straight-acting population could be potentially large, but I need some data or educated guesses to support that argument. Because gay men are not necessarily straight-acting, and many straight-acting closeted gay men have not declared themselves gay, so it may be difficult to find reliable data on this.

I am doing this for marketing research purposes; please share your thought on this. If you can draw your inferences from your knowledge, experience, or an article on the web, please share them with us. Thank you, and I appreciate your contribution.

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Postby qwertz » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:16 am

All. You only need to visit continental Europe to see ALL men in US are straight acting. The way US-males talk! The voices! The way they walk! Straights are the absolute champs.
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Postby Ben » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:01 am

qwertz wrote:All. You only need to visit continental Europe to see ALL men in US are straight acting. The way US-males talk! The voices! The way they walk! Straights are the absolute champs.


Qwertz maybe you need to see more of Europe then.
Sure, to some extent you have a point with all the metrosexual crap that's going on over here, that YOUNGER men here look and behave slightly gayer. It depends on what generation you look at. A lot of the men in their 40s and older still have the traditionally male attitudes and attributes. I agree that the GAY population in Europe overall is less str8acting than that of the US.

I've been to the US 3 times now though, and even met a few gay guys... and believe me some of them ain't that st8acting. :wink:
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Postby qwertz » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:59 pm

Ben wrote:
qwertz wrote:All. You only need to visit continental Europe to see ALL men in US are straight acting. The way US-males talk! The voices! The way they walk! Straights are the absolute champs.


Qwertz maybe you need to see more of Europe then.
Sure, to some extent you have a point with all the metrosexual crap that's going on over here, that YOUNGER men here look and behave slightly gayer. It depends on what generation you look at. A lot of the men in their 40s and older still have the traditionally male attitudes and attributes. I agree that the GAY population in Europe overall is less str8acting than that of the US.

I've been to the US 3 times now though, and even met a few gay guys... and believe me some of them ain't that st8acting. :wink:


I have been in the US a few times too (I didn't see anyone gay, although I was in New-York); the way American men talk and act cann't be natural. Moreover some adapt their way of acting and sometimes change in the presence of a low profile guy like me myself. Especially when guys stress their machismo, I tend to do exactly the reverse and it seems clear to me there is lots of straight overacting ( I agree in Europe as well, but especially in the US), as they seem perfectly able to adapt to a low profile guy.
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Postby furface » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:20 pm

Donovan; I'm assuming you mean of the gay male population, not the total male population of the US. Using that assumption,we can do the math.

US population is just a shade over 300 million.

Assuming 10% are homosexual (very generous assumption);

Take out the female component, 0.97:1.00 m/f, and you have between 14 and 15 million gay males of all types.

My personal experience leads me to believe the "straight-acting" segment of that of the population is around 20%.

SO......

You have a segment of about 3,000,000 gay straight-acting males in the US.

My vote is 15-19%.

Of the total US population you're looking at no more that 1.5%

Note: If the percentage of homosexuals is actually closer to 5%, as many believe, please adjust your figures downward accordingly.
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Postby Donovan » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:59 pm

Thanks, that was a very scientific approach.
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Postby qwertz » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:23 pm

furface wrote:
Assuming 10% are homosexual (very generous assumption);



Extreme underestimate
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Postby mijopaalmc » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:00 pm

qwertz wrote:
furface wrote:
Assuming 10% are homosexual (very generous assumption);



Extreme underestimate


Really? What makes you say that (other than wishful thinking)?
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Postby Duskofdead » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:18 pm

furface wrote:Donovan; I'm assuming you mean of the gay male population, not the total male population of the US. Using that assumption,we can do the math.

US population is just a shade over 300 million.

Assuming 10% are homosexual (very generous assumption);

Take out the female component, 0.97:1.00 m/f, and you have between 14 and 15 million gay males of all types.

My personal experience leads me to believe the "straight-acting" segment of that of the population is around 20%.

SO......

You have a segment of about 3,000,000 gay straight-acting males in the US.

My vote is 15-19%.

Of the total US population you're looking at no more that 1.5%

Note: If the percentage of homosexuals is actually closer to 5%, as many believe, please adjust your figures downward accordingly.


Furface, very well argued.

I think the only confounder in your analysis is that "straight acting" gay men are difficult to get any numerical pulse on. This is both because "straight acting" gay men are more difficult to identify as gay and because I think it's safe to assume that a significantly higher proportion of "straight acting" gay men are either closeted or "discreet" than non-straight acting men.

In other words, no matter how many times you hang around with a group, crowd, or community of out gay men... you can never get an accurate fix on what percentage of gay men overall are straight-acting because chances are the majority of them are not represented in gay "out" communities, parties, events, etc. "Straight acting" men have need, but far less need, to divorce themselves from heterosexual/mixed communities and either join or create their own gay communities. They can "blend into the crowd" so to speak and do not need to pick their place of living or working based on where they will feel secure and accepted.

I'm speaking in broad generalities of course, but my gut instinct is that with any poll, study, survey, or personal experience with groups of gay men - even the subjective definition of what is "straight acting" aside, will not yield very accurate results because of both the stigma of identifying as gay (which "straight acting" men can avoid by choice whereas "obvious" gay men cannot) in our society and the fact that virtually any gay community of any size will be primarily populated by men who qualify as less than fully "straight acting."
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Postby charmcitywop » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:21 pm

Difficult to assess too because "straight-acting" is not so easily defined. One man's straight-acting is another man's screaming queen.
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Postby Odeh » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:26 pm

Also, even the gay guys may only be "out" in gay circles...I know guys who like guys who don't even move in gay circles..they use phone or
personal ads to meet other guys who like guys individually and don't even know what or where the gay things are: like bars,circuit events,parties
organizations...I have heard them say things like: "I have some friends
who Iam gay with and some friends whom Iam not gay with"...

In my experience,these guys are very masculine and fit socially in regular
straight circles...for lack of a better description Brokeback mountain types.
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Postby chidiver » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:00 pm

From the Hot or Not...they’re not even tiring to hide now... thread on the Military section,

I was very stunned to see so many normal straight looking dudes on http://meetme.hotornot.com
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Postby Davy » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:12 pm

Remember that Kinsey's 10% figure that everyone points to is somewhat misleading by today's standards. On Kinsey's scale you are rated 1-6, with 1 being exclusively heterosexual-- as defined by behavior only, not attraction, identity, etc. The 10% is everyone who is not a 1 on the scale.

That means that 10% of the population (according to Kinsey) is either gay, bi, bi-curious, questioning, or even asexual. Of course we would find that small percentage to be ridiculous if today's science were applied.

But since I am not a scientist, I will accept the pessimistic figure of 2% of the population identifying as gay or bi. My guess is that possibly 20-30% of all men are MSM but do not identify as gay/bi. Possibly even 50% or higher have had same-sex feelings or sexual experiences. My opinions and guesses here, not science.

So...to answer the question, I am going to guess that of the self-identifying 2%, possibly 10-20% of those are truly straight-acting. Those who do not identify as gay/bi/questioning, but are classified as MSM, I would say that most of them are probably straight-acting.
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Postby Negate » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:18 am

furface wrote:Donovan; I'm assuming you mean of the gay male population, not the total male population of the US. Using that assumption,we can do the math.

US population is just a shade over 300 million.

Assuming 10% are homosexual (very generous assumption);

Take out the female component, 0.97:1.00 m/f, and you have between 14 and 15 million gay males of all types.

My personal experience leads me to believe the "straight-acting" segment of that of the population is around 20%.

SO......

You have a segment of about 3,000,000 gay straight-acting males in the US.

My vote is 15-19%.

Of the total US population you're looking at no more that 1.5%

Note: If the percentage of homosexuals is actually closer to 5%, as many believe, please adjust your figures downward accordingly.


That gave me bone. :D
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Postby chrismanos » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:36 am

from a Marketing and Demographics point of view, studies have shown that the 4% or 10% that are popular numbers for percentages of gay and lesbian are grossly underestimated.

The company I work for was a cosponsor of a recent (within the last 5 years) marketing poll. The AVERAGE is ~10%. When you break it down by age group, 35%+ of people from 18-42 identify as being gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered. If you look at the full range of age groups, the younger the age group, the higher the percentage.

As for what percent of the population is 'straight-acting', I'd have to say slightly under the percentage of the population that are actually gay, lesbian or bisexual.

I'll have to dig out that study. It was very interesting.
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Postby qwertz » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:42 pm

mijopaalmc wrote:
qwertz wrote:
furface wrote:
Assuming 10% are homosexual (very generous assumption);



Extreme underestimate


Really? What makes you say that (other than wishful thinking)?



Follow the discussions about the polls of the French presidential elections where quite a number of people will never admit they will vote Le Pen. Same for being gay. Moreover it is totally impossible and it will forever be totally impossible to have an exact figure in societies with creeping homophobia.

When one gives the 10%-figure, he has the duty to state this is the figure in societies with creeping homophobia. BTW, the 10%-figure is absolutely enormous taking into account creeping homophobia.

The risk exists gayness will be reduced to the 10%-figure though it only represents the top of the iceberg.
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Postby qwertz » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:09 pm

According to a Dutch site 29% of men and 41% of women in German speaking Switzerland have at least one homosexual experience. Except for homophobia, Switzerland or the Netherlands are not actually different from the United States. Sorry, my reference is in Dutch:

http://www.gaysite.nl/nieuws/0714/29_he ... aring.html
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Postby solat » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:29 am

charmcitywop wrote:Difficult to assess too because "straight-acting" is not so easily defined. One man's straight-acting is another man's screaming queen.


Absolutely.

And what about all those who've lost their str8acting credentials through carelessness?

You might be the straightest thing since the invention of the ruler, but all it takes is a careless crossing of the legs at the knee, an unconscious wristflap, a teehee rather than a manly roar, croissants and jam over eggs and grits, possessing doilies but no beermats, preferring art/culture over beer/TV, and wham, you've just blown your cover.
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Postby solat » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:32 am

qwertz wrote:According to a Dutch site 29% of men and 41% of women in German speaking Switzerland have at least one homosexual experience. Except for homophobia, Switzerland or the Netherlands are not actually different from the United States.


Doesn't make them gay. I think everyone at one time experiments.
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Postby Donovan » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:29 am

solat wrote:
charmcitywop wrote:Difficult to assess too because "straight-acting" is not so easily defined. One man's straight-acting is another man's screaming queen.


Absolutely.

And what about all those who've lost their str8acting credentials through carelessness?

You might be the straightest thing since the invention of the ruler, but all it takes is a careless crossing of the legs at the knee, an unconscious wristflap, a teehee rather than a manly roar, croissants and jam over eggs and grits, possessing doilies but no beermats, preferring art/culture over beer/TV, and wham, you've just blown your cover.

There are still exceptions though. Even if he does all of the above, Arnold Schwarzenegger will still looks very straight to me. Hack, even when he gets pregnant in the movie "Junior", it never change the audicen's perception of him as the straightest guy ever. Maybe he is gay-proof :lol:

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And I know many politicians who cross their legs at the knee and don't appear gay.
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Postby Donovan » Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:42 am

^ So to make the criteria more clear, when I say "straight-acting" that includes the whole enchilada: The straight-acting guys who choose to stay in the closet and never admit they are gay (hence, the super straight-acting type), and the queeny type who says he is straight-acting while everyone else around him things he is just “trying”.

From a business perspective, as long as the person "Wants" to be straight-acting and is willing to buy things that he "thinks" will make him look more straight, then there is a business opportunity. (think Abercrombie)
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Postby qwertz » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:58 pm

solat wrote:
qwertz wrote:According to a Dutch site 29% of men and 41% of women in German speaking Switzerland have at least one homosexual experience. Except for homophobia, Switzerland or the Netherlands are not actually different from the United States.


Doesn't make them gay. I think everyone at one time experiments.
I've had sex with girls and I'm not heterosexual.


Sure, but the contraty can be true as well: some can only have one experience and be 100% gay. My only point is the "official" 10%-figure is totally plucked out of the air.
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Postby chidiver » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:44 pm

This is a little off the topic, but there is a good article in this months Atlantic Monthly about gay life in Saudi Arabia:

Excerpt:

The Atlantic Monthly | May 2007

The Kingdom in the Closet
(page 1 of 4)

Sodomy is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia, but gay life flourishes there. Why it is “easier to be gay than straight” in a society where everyone, homosexual and otherwise, lives in the closet

by Nadya Labi

.....

Y asser, a 26-year-old artist, was taking me on an impromptu tour of his hometown of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, on a sweltering September afternoon. The air conditioner of his dusty Honda battled the heat, prayer beads dangled from the rearview mirror, and the smell of the cigarette he’d just smoked wafted toward me as he stopped to show me a barbershop that his friends frequent. Officially, men in Saudi Arabia aren’t allowed to wear their hair long or to display jewelry—such vanities are usually deemed to violate an Islamic instruction that the sexes must not be too similar in appearance. But Yasser wears a silver necklace, a silver bracelet, and a sparkly red stud in his left ear, and his hair is shaggy. Yasser is homosexual, or so we would describe him in the West, and the barbershop we visited caters to gay men. Business is brisk.

Leaving the barbershop, we drove onto Tahlia Street, a broad avenue framed by palm trees, then went past a succession of sleek malls and slowed in front of a glass-and-steel shopping center. Men congregated outside and in nearby cafés. Whereas most such establishments have a family section, two of this area’s cafés allow only men; not surprisingly, they are popular among men who prefer one another’s company. Yasser gestured to a parking lot across from the shopping center, explaining that after midnight it would be “full of men picking up men.” These days, he said, “you see gay people everywhere.”
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Postby qwertz » Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:10 pm

Davy wrote:Remember that Kinsey's 10% figure that everyone points to is somewhat misleading by today's standards. On Kinsey's scale you are rated 1-6, with 1 being exclusively heterosexual-- as defined by behavior only, not attraction, identity, etc. The 10% is everyone who is not a 1 on the scale.

That means that 10% of the population (according to Kinsey) is either gay, bi, bi-curious, questioning, or even asexual. Of course we would find that small percentage to be ridiculous if today's science were applied.

But since I am not a scientist, I will accept the pessimistic figure of 2% of the population identifying as gay or bi. My guess is that possibly 20-30% of all men are MSM but do not identify as gay/bi. Possibly even 50% or higher have had same-sex feelings or sexual experiences. My opinions and guesses here, not science.

So...to answer the question, I am going to guess that of the self-identifying 2%, possibly 10-20% of those are truly straight-acting. Those who do not identify as gay/bi/questioning, but are classified as MSM, I would say that most of them are probably straight-acting.



About the 50%-figure:

http://www.youth-suicide.com/gay-bisexual/adams.htm#500

Go to "top of page". Here it always opens at the bottom of the page.
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Postby chidiver » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:04 pm

I have always thought that the 10% was a bit of wishful thinking.

An interesting research method employed. I wonder how much having a having a gauge tied around the subjects' baby maker played into the arousal; Also, if a control was taken using hetero porn as well?

That said, deer camp with my buddies may be a little more interesting for me next fall.
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