Were you born gay?

Discussion on what it means to be straight acting, whether it's good, bad or indifferent.

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What is the leading cause of your homosexuality?

Born that way
107
73%
Majority born that way, somewhat environmental
26
18%
Majority environmental, somewhat born that way
8
5%
Environmental
6
4%
 
Total votes : 147

Postby qwertz » Sun May 11, 2008 4:09 pm

As i said before in another thread, the question is totally irrelevant. When it would be a choice - which we all know it isn't - it would be the most valuable choice you could ever make. In fact it is a pity it isn't a choice as only the most valuable would choose gayness.

And yes, I know there are religious fundamentalists in the U.S., but we should not follow their devilish agenda.

It is plainly IRRELEVANT. I repeat: IRRELEVANT.

By the way the last Gallup in the U.S. about the frequency of male-to-male sexual contact in the U.S. is seen as hilarious in Europe. You simply cann't measure this frequency in a homophobic society.

http://www.gaysite.nl/nieuws/0818/Ameri ... uelen.html
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Postby olywaguy » Sun May 11, 2008 6:44 pm

qwertz wrote:By the way the last Gallup in the U.S. about the frequency of male-to-male sexual contact in the U.S. is seen as hilarious in Europe. You simply cann't measure this frequency in a homophobic society.

http://www.gaysite.nl/nieuws/0818/Ameri ... uelen.html



Okay GV, what good is this link to us if its in German? Can you summarize?
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Postby olywaguy » Sun May 11, 2008 6:44 pm

olywaguy wrote:
qwertz wrote:By the way the last Gallup in the U.S. about the frequency of male-to-male sexual contact in the U.S. is seen as hilarious in Europe. You simply cann't measure this frequency in a homophobic society.

http://www.gaysite.nl/nieuws/0818/Ameri ... uelen.html



Okay GV, what good is this link to us if its in Dutch? Can you summarize?
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Postby qwertz » Mon May 12, 2008 2:48 am

The gallup says there are only 2,9% gays or bisexuals in America. They simply phoned people and asked.

The reactions are total hilarious unbelief in Europe, as if there would be anyone admitting having had homosexual or bisexual contacts through phone in a homophobic society.

Besides any kind of inquiry, even the most "scientific" one, into the frequency of homosexuality or bisexuality in homophobic societies is doomed to fail. As long as there is homophobia, you scientifically only can assume there are 10% core homosexuals and 10% core heterosexuals. In between you have the more or less bisexual, usually calling themselves heterosexual as that is the norm. If bisexuality would not exist as some say, then reality must be a total fake as in reality there are many men who are married with a woman and who have sex with men.
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Postby Kaioke » Sat May 24, 2008 9:49 pm

This question is so belittling. It's like asking the only black kid in the class, "One day, did you great x25 grandmother give birth to a child and be like, "Oh no, they're black!" (Like Elphaba) Or, "Did the sun eventually burn your skin enough where you just stayed black."

We're not delegates of the spectrum and shouldn't have to "represent" it in any way shape or form.
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Postby ProMale » Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:38 pm

the question begs to be answered "yes," not because it's true, but because it's the best way to prevent hetero panic.
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Postby nimby » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:08 pm

Frizzurd wrote:i have been masturbating since i was like 5. Learned it on my own too but would rub against the floor while laying down. I just wonder if that could of affected me somehow.


No. All children masturbate, even at that young age. It is conditioned in them to not masturbate.
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Postby qwertz » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:42 pm

If only you could freely choose to be gay. If only it could be true you freely could choose for it. All men would be gay. All men. Imagine. ALL men.

Anyway if there would be any free choice, it would be the most valuable choice in life.
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Was I born gay?.....ehhh, yup!...

Postby sammyboy » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:20 pm

And being 53 yo and with the stigma attached to being gay in my adolescence, I suffered for it for a long time. Least I knew I had the love of my parents and my brother, but sh*t!! Still coming to terms with my orientation after being married 18 1/2 years and having three kids, all of whom know their Dad's gay and love and support him nonetheless.

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Postby Westwood » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:46 am

Growing up on a ranch in the 50's and 60's it was odd. When I was a kid, I had my Tonka trucks, my horse (my freedom!) and my country friends. As I grew up, I had all of those homing instincts of ranch and family, yet when I pictured my family in the future, there was this image in my head of Ron Choate who used to go on the 100 mile trail rides my best ol redneck buddy Clay and I used to do every year. I knew that image wasn't acceptable so I shut up about it. I didn't have the usual image of going home to the little Susy home maker on the ranch. I had the image of Ron and I riding out to fix fence, work cattle, work up a sweat, and then finally working up a sweat together. I SO didn't fit the stereotype of what I had heard of as gay, but the sexual attraction was spot on homosexual. It took me a LONG time coming to terms with my homosexuality because of the stereotype. I married for 10 years, almost produced a son (John Morgan Enyart miscarried after 3 months) and generally tried to "fit in".

My buddy Clay used to look at me and shake his head. "Judy isn't right for you", he'd say. He knew. When I finally divorced and struck out in the "gay world" I was pretty much disgusted. Queens and queers. Try to strike up a conversation in a gay bar talking about overhauling the tractor and working cattle got me looks of "HUH?" It's tough growing up gay when you don't fit the stereotype and the guys like me stayed WAY in the closet.

I'm a one man man, and one man at a time. It took me until I was 53 to meet a man I fit with. He grew up on a diary farm, I grew up on a ranch. We have skills and personality traits that fit with each other.

To the OP in my experience, we're born with our sexual orientation hard coded into us. Our personality traits are heritable and can be influence by environment. How we integrate our experiences, our sexuality, the MAN we are when we become an adult and come to terms with our orientation, is in our control.
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Who tries, does.
Who loves, lives!
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Postby Schlodesss » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:35 am

Westwood wrote: Try to strike up a conversation in a gay bar talking about overhauling the tractor and working cattle got me looks of "HUH?" It's tough growing up gay when you don't fit the stereotype and the guys like me stayed WAY in the closet.

.


Next time just try talking cars or bikes [actually building or racing..].. oh wait.. bad advice never mind lol.
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Postby Pazuzu P. Sasquatch » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:59 am

I remember distinctly, at the age of 5, thinking that I'd rather live with a man when I grew up than a woman. . . Make of that what you will.
When I was driving once, I saw this painted on a bridge: "I don't want the world. I just want your half."
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Postby Cachasa » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:54 pm

I don't think we are born this way.

We might be born with a genetic predisposition to becomeing gay but it's our earily experiences that push us the rest of the way.

You are your brain there is no metaphysical "mind" just your neurons and neurotransmiters etc...
Our Brains develop our whole lives from the moment we pop out. Everything we are exposed to from that first second onward affects the devlopment our brain and part of that is who/what we find sexually attractive. So it may feel like you have always felt inclined to men but really for the first 2 years of your life you don't remeber anything and even after that it's still prety fuzzy for the next few years.

I read a few studies on identical twins. In a nut shell if you find a gay guy and he happens to have an identical twin brother only about 50% of the time is his brother also gay. If we were born this way that number would be 100%; although 50% is still very high and definatly suggests some kind of genetic link. But it's not the whole story.

Also remember that developmental does not mean choice. None of us choose to be gay and now that we are we can't change.
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Postby matinee » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:08 pm

Cachasa wrote:I don't think we are born this way.


Guess what, mammals and birds that have no concept of upbringing, social conditioning, etc, are gay, straight or everything in between.
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Postby Cachasa » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:21 pm

I'm not trying sound confrontational in this post so if I do...Sorry.

Anyway...

All birds and mammals involve some kind of upbringing when we're born or hatch since we rely very heavely on our parrents/care givers for support in the first stages of life. So to that extent all birds and mammals recieve some kind of "socialzation". Although it's not to the same as what humans and other primates do.

Also, even though we see homosexual behavior in other species it does't explain homosexuality in humans. It can help us understand it a bit better and maybe we can come up with some theoies and models but it can't tell us exactly how/why it occurs in humans.

I'm also not just talking about overt socalization either it could be a unique personal experience or exposure to some chemical in the environment and there's also the possibility that the hormones a person is exposed to while they are in their mothers influence (not determine) sexual orentation.

All I'm saying is that for humans most of the evidence (not just the twin studies) sugests that we are not born this way but that we might be born prediposed to becomeing gay and that we don't choose to be gay.


I'm not being self hateing or anything I'm just following the literature I've studied.
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Postby matinee » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:22 pm

It still comes to the point that there could be so many causes that it is useless to try to find "the one" because it simply might not exist. All I know is that I was gay since I can remember and cannot see anything in my past that could be a possible "trigger". I have not even known the terms gay or homosexual are until I came to Canada at the age of 17. For all practical purposes I was born gay. The only part of my personality I can attribute to the environment I grew up in is that I have none of the characteristics of the stereotypical gay individual.
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Postby Phoenix6570 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:17 pm

Hard question; part of me wants to say I was born that way. The other part says other factors may have caused it. When I look back on my childhood I can tell that I was always into men far more than women. I can still remember the days of looking at my gym teacher in awe. The problem I have with the alternative is that my upbringing would've condemned me for being gay. So I don't see how growing up in that kind of environment would help to make me gay. I'll say it's a mixture of both but I guess we'll never really know for sure.
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Born this way??

Postby sammyboy » Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:34 pm

Uhhhh, yeah!

If I wasn't born this way, I damn sure new I was very different from other boys early on in my childhood. Not to say I was a total flamer, I've always loved cars and mechanical stuff - standard "straight-acting" stuff. It's just that before puberty I found myself much more drawn to other boys and adult men long before I was old enough to recognize that attraction as a sexual thing.

In short, if I wasn't born gay, I became that way - or predisposed to being gay - long before I developed sexually.
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Postby Screamer » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:49 pm

Still voting "no"
"I'm in the mood for love, simply because you're near me"
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Postby jabpcola » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:13 am

I don't know how to vote, so if someone would enlighten me I would appreciate it.

For the record, you betcha I was born gay. Fooled myself for a few years in my 20's, but it didn't work. So, there is no doubt in my mind I was born to be gay.
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Postby Barmbek78 » Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:59 pm

I dunno, I barely remember anything before my 4th birthday. :)

But I expect so.
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Postby Timmybear » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:20 am

Davy wrote:I can't vote in this poll. "None of the above" is not an option.


Quite. And, then, of course, I would find myself saying: "'gay' is a cultural identity. We are not born with a cultural identity." It's like those ads that used to run for a store called USA Baby - a baby doesn't have a national identity - a baby is its own country, until it becomes aware of its environment and the brainwashing begins.

'None of the above' or 'let's break this down a bit' fits me more. The whole 'We can't help it' or 'Who would choose to be gay?' mindset troubles me, becase the first part could very well lead to a: 'Of course you can't, so let's phase you out, because you're sick' and the second part presumes that a person wants to conform and is uncritical of the norm.
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Postby catapult » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:51 pm

An interesting passage from Vasistha's Yoga:

"The will of the supreme being cannot be transgressed. It is his will that I should be like this and the others should be as they are. One cannot fathom nor measure what has to be. In accordance with the nature of each being, that which is to be comes to be."

We are what we are. It is karma. No need to judge. Maybe no need to even figure out a cause. It was just meant to be. So whatever Nature and/or Nuture was required to make us gay, we got it.

The universe is a field of all possibilities. We have lived many different lives - as men and women, as heterosexual and homosexual. What's the big deal?

It is just Life, or Being, experiencing its infinite potentialities.

So what if some of the boys in this universe love boys and not girls? It is just variety. What is there to hate in that? Love is love. If it is consenting, how can it be wrong? In another universe, homosexuality may be the norm.

In a prefect world, a boy loving another boy would not be looked upon any different than a boy loving a blonde girl rather than a brunette girl. Who knows why? Was Mommy a blonde or was he married to a blonde in a past life? Who knows? Who cares?
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Postby lazyrascal » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:36 am

Hi. I'm new here and I've came across this before and I've always came to the same conclusion.

I must have been born this way.

Ever since I can remember I have had homosexual tendencies. When I was in high school I dated chicks and held back my emotions towards dudes (not all by the way) because I thought that within time I would develop the desire for women. By that desire never came. In time I came to accept the fact that I am only attracted to the same sex. And even though it felt good to have a girlfriend because it proved I was a man to my father and straight bros it was all just a front. I made the choice to stop playing with womens heads because personally I feel that isn't right.

I never dreamed about being a gay man and I don't think many men do. There's no denying that people who are attracted to that same sex are treated differently in society. We are humiliated, harassed, beaten, sent to jail, and in some countries even put to death. I don't think any gay man or women would choose to be gay because of this. I mean honestly, it's not an easy life to live and most here should agree.

All I gotta say is that I believe that I was born gay and I don't need to get into hypothalamuses or gay genes to prove it. Some people believe in Jesus Christ and I never ask them to prove it because that is what they believe in. I try to treat others the way that I would be treated. However, I do think that science will one day prove that sexual orientation is determined at birth. And that will help out the GLBT community very much. As of right now science can only prove about some 5% of what goes on in the brain, its extremely complex.
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Postby nimby » Sun May 10, 2009 6:25 pm

catapult wrote:An interesting passage from Vasistha's Yoga:

"The will of the supreme being cannot be transgressed. It is his will that I should be like this and the others should be as they are. One cannot fathom nor measure what has to be. In accordance with the nature of each being, that which is to be comes to be."

We are what we are. It is karma. No need to judge. Maybe no need to even figure out a cause. It was just meant to be. So whatever Nature and/or Nuture was required to make us gay, we got it.

The universe is a field of all possibilities. We have lived many different lives - as men and women, as heterosexual and homosexual. What's the big deal?

It is just Life, or Being, experiencing its infinite potentialities.

So what if some of the boys in this universe love boys and not girls? It is just variety. What is there to hate in that? Love is love. If it is consenting, how can it be wrong? In another universe, homosexuality may be the norm.

In a prefect world, a boy loving another boy would not be looked upon any different than a boy loving a blonde girl rather than a brunette girl. Who knows why? Was Mommy a blonde or was he married to a blonde in a past life? Who knows? Who cares?


I agree completely. I've come to realize something. It doesn't matter if your a boy who loves boys, girls , or a mix of each. And the same for girls. Reason being is that the human soul is omnisexual. It's love does not discriminate. God created all souls equal. But He created both male and female roles on Earth for us to experience our lessons from different perspectives as each gender has it's own experiences from which we all benefit and move forward toward enlightenment. The number of passages we make on this planet can and does contain incarnations of one sex or the other, or a mix of both (homosexual?) in order for us to learn what we are sent here to learn.

"Do what you will, as long as it hurts none."
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