Queer - yeah or neigh?

Discussion on what it means to be straight acting, whether it's good, bad or indifferent.

Moderators: selective_soldier, furface

How do you feel about the word 'queer'?

We're taking it back! I think it's great!
9
15%
It doesn't bother me.
21
36%
I don't like it.
17
29%
It is a degrading term and I hate it.
12
20%
 
Total votes : 59

Postby devilnuts » Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:55 am

Smitty wrote:
Triad wrote:You have that ability, I don't.

Yes you do, you just don't recognize it yet. If I was there, we could drill it. (Get your mind out of the gutter. :P ) I would call you names until it didn't phase you anymore. It works. You could do it with a friend. (Get your mind out of the gutter. :P )


Yes, well, I've never been accused of being tactful...lmao. Always got hit on that on my FitReps...lol.

[puts mind back in gutter]
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Postby Smitty » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:07 am

Triad wrote:
Smitty wrote:I've used 'queer', 'fag/faggot' and 'homo' here only (trying to get with it). Straights don't call me those words without being called on it.


Smitty, your logic does not wash. I just quoted one of your recent posts on the subject. If straights get "called" [by you for homophobic slurs] you have been phased and you verbalize a retort [isn't that what "getting called" means?]. If it does not phase me anymore then I will not defensively respond, which I do not!

Shrillness aside, what are you trying to tell me [or the world]?

There is a distinction between being controlled by your emotions and speaking up for yourself. Doesn't happen often. Sometimes it's best to let it slide. Other times something like, "What did you say?" is enough halt ignorant aggression.
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Postby Ben » Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:44 am

I guess it depends on who is saying it and how.

If some stranger on the street shouts "*$#*@# queer!", "buttpirate!", I would be kinda pissed.

However if a friend would call me queer, or a lover would say "oh yeah work me over, you buttpirate" I'd be totally ok. :P
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Postby devilnuts » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:38 pm

oh yeah work me over, you buttpirate

hehehe :twisted: :P :twisted:
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Postby animismo » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:40 pm

i don't use it nor care for it much. but, i agree with ben: it's all in the usage. i've only really heard it used as a pejorative, at the time against some of my flashier gay buddies, so i'm prolly speaking from bad experience.

in the end, i prolly should care less. self-image shouldn't break down cause of a word.

now, "buttpirate" is a different story...arg...lol...
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Postby foxeyes2 » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:27 am

I will use Queer to describe myself to be inclusive of all facets of the GLBT community. For me it means that I relate to not only Gay men, but Lesbians, Bisexuals, and Trans people. I consider it a politcal word a lot of times. I have also used it for shock value and to remove it's power to hurt me. I have had some straight friends that I would consider "queer" because they like me do not fall into the typical roles of men or women.
They are outside the prevelant "norm". They are the ones who will march in gay pride parades, who support full equality for us, they are ones who do the jobs around their home based on ability and not on "male jobs" and "female jobs". So yeah Queer can be good.
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Postby Guest » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:42 am

I try not to use the term as much as possible. It is offensive to some.
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Postby imperfectjoe » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:51 am

I do not use the terms and it does not bother me much, but I don't use them because it is offensive to some people..
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Postby yes_I_am_so_what » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:23 pm

There was a thread at one point about blacks using the "N" word when referring to each other. Is it really any different when gay men use words like "queer" or "fag"?

I see it as saying "We're members of a group that some segments of society have a serious problem with. But as long as we accept and embrace who we are, those that don't like us can just go fu** themselves."
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Postby deathbrinegr » Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:04 pm

We have TAKEN the word "Queer", it has been a word used by gays to describe themselves since the 90's!. I reguarly use "Poof" and "Heemasex" as well, and love listening to the super-homophobic song "Now, he's a poof" by The Macc Lads. If i was in a rock band i'd cover it too, in fact i have heard that there is a jewish band covering songs by the neo-nazi band Skrewdriver, thier name? Jewdriver XD. The best way to defeat the bigots is to take thier offensive terms, songs and chants, and start to celebrate them, making a mockery of them in the process. Whereas 'dropping' words and using alternative 'politically correct' phrases sounds like 1984 to me.
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Postby devilnuts » Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:36 pm

Exactly DB...I was thinking about this earlier for some reason...why do people care? Why do humans seem to care so much about what others think of them and what "symbols" will be assigned to them by others? F*ck 'em all...
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Re: Queer - yeah or neigh?

Postby masculinity » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:53 am

Smitty wrote:I stumbled over this 'editorial' and thought it would be as much fun to argue about as anything else. How do you feel about the word 'queer'? Do you call yourself queer? Do you call others queer? Do you allow others to call you queer? Do you wince when you hear the word or do you feel a hip sense of pride?
Let's bury the repulsive word "queer" once and for all.

While many tragic things have happened to the gay community during the last two decades, one of the worst of all was the introduction of the homophobic word "queer." The almost sinister, duplicitous way this little dirty trick was performed should be the subject of an interesting book. The word was introduced by the usual self-appointed suspects in our community. In some ways it shows how politically weak the gay community is, and how easy it is to announce that you're a gay leader who will now tell gay people what they should call themselves. And unfortunately, how easily some gay people are duped. A poll we've taken on this site indicates what our intuition already told us, namely that most gay people don't like the word. Most people we know and respect hate the word and always will. The bizarre, downright silly and cult-like defense of the word which basically comes down to "we're taking the word back yada-yada," is just plain moronic. Taking a word back? It's a little like trying to take back flatulence in an elevator. Even one of the original promoters of the word has admitted that it was a big mistake. That's actually an understatement. If the word is all wrong for you, and you feel that it undermines the self-respect and integrity of the gay community, let your feelings be known. Words do matter. Don't support publications or advertisers who are trying to "queer" the gay community. The word is a betrayal of everyone who fought for the liberation of the gay and lesbian community. And it is not even remotely cool. Unless you think that creepy is cool. If you do chose to call yourself "queer" you should know one thing: the whole straight world is laughing behind your back. Especially the homophobes. They love it when you demean yourself and your community.


Link: The Gay Cartoons Site

What's the difference, gay or queer... they all mean the same, and for mainstream world and for 'normal' people, they have the same stigma.

Queer originally and even today, essentially means an effeminate male who actively seeks passive sex from men, who's promiscuous, who's frivolous and flamboyant. This is what the third sex has comprised of in the entire world for more than two thousand years.

In the days of the ancient Greeks, the Queers were called 'Catamites'. In India they're called Hijras, Kotis, etc., in thailand they're known as ladyboys, and so on and so forth.

Gay means the same thing originally. No difference at all.

Its only that the Western society tried to change the definition of Queer or Third sex or Gay to include the entire range of man's sexuality for men, and not just 'receptive anal/ oral sex' by effeminate males.

What kind of males do you think would jump at the idea of calling themselves gay... with this history in mind? When, its not just calling yourself something, the western society then goes on to divide the society on these lines and you're formally separated from the 'normal' men's group and become one of the third sex.

would "Normal", "regular" men, today defined as 'straights' want that -- no way;, they'd rather wear heterosexual masks when they don't have enough sexuality for women, and suppress their sexual needs for men, than be called 'queer' or 'gay'.

Almost the entire gay community consists primarily of what it was earlier, effeminate males who like passive sex from men, thinking of themselves to be women. The only difference is that today, a number of 'meterosexual' males or 'straight-acting' males, who although are effeminate, were originally a part of the straight world, (because they're not really transgendered, and the straight world earlier had enough space for male femininity as long as it was not predominant), who do a number of things to hide their effeminacy, by adopting social roles prescribed for straights (or masculine males) who then sometimes complain about other gays not following suit, and wearing their 'gayness' on their sleeves.

On the periphery of the gay community exist a number of men who are actually "normal" and "regular", and thus properly belong in the 'straight' world... who quietly use the space it provides to fulfill their sexual needs for men, but never really leaving the straight world and becoming a part of the 'gay' world.

Then, there are several "normal", "regular" men in the straight world, who have a developed, almost exclusive sexuality for men, who crush their sexual need for men in a cruel manner, but don't want to risk even going to the 'gay' space on the periphery.

Of course, then there are all those "normal", "regular" guys and not so "normal", "regular" guys, who nevertheless are able to crush their sexual need for men, for all practical purposes and are able to divert their sexual need towards women, in varying degrees, so that they don't have to even think about that aspect of their being.

Remember, ALL MEN HAVE A SEXUAL NEED FOR MEN, EXCEPT most queer males. But queer males are not really men. Only a minority of queers are exclusively or predominantly into men, its only that they have a social space that defines 'queer' as 'homosexuals', so we see only the gays.

Coming back to the point raised by this article... it is foolish to complaint about 'queer' being used to define 'gays' because, the people who actually own the gay identity and space actually see themselves as 'queers' and they see nothing wrong with it.

If you have problems with it, try rejecting the 'gay' identity itself, which belongs to the queers -- or to the effeminate male who actively seeks receptive anal/ oral sex as a woman.

Let's strive to restore the original definitions of these gender spaces:

Straight: as a space/ identity for men who have a male identity, irrespective of whether they have sex with men or women.
Gay: as the space or identity for males who have a female identity, irrespective of who they prefer to have sex with.
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby masculinity » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:04 am

The literal meaning of Queer is effeminate male.

I mean look at the fact that there are Queer heterosexuals.

If queer meant gay, then queer heterosexuals would mean 'homosexual-heterosexuals', which is weird.

And the queerness of the 'homosexual' community is NOT a stereotype, it's its essence. There is no validity for a (separate) gay identity, if it were not for the effeminacy of the queers.

Have problems with it? Then chuck the 'gay' identity, instead of complaining.
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby CollegePepper » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:26 pm

masculinity wrote:The literal meaning of Queer is effeminate male.

I mean look at the fact that there are Queer heterosexuals.

If queer meant gay, then queer heterosexuals would mean 'homosexual-heterosexuals', which is weird.

And the queerness of the 'homosexual' community is NOT a stereotype, it's its essence. There is no validity for a (separate) gay identity, if it were not for the effeminacy of the queers.

Have problems with it? Then chuck the 'gay' identity, instead of complaining.



The literal non-slang meaning for "Queer" according to dictionary.com is as follows:
queer
   /kwɪər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kweer] Show IPA Pronunciation
adjective, -er, -est, verb, noun
–adjective
1. strange or odd from a conventional viewpoint; unusually different; singular: a queer notion of justice.
2. of a questionable nature or character; suspicious; shady: Something queer about the language of the prospectus kept investors away.
3. not feeling physically right or well; giddy, faint, or qualmish: to feel queer.
4. mentally unbalanced or deranged.
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Postby olywaguy » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:16 pm

Here are the definitions as quoted in the Oxford English Dictionary.

As a noun.


1. With the: that which is queer (in various senses). rare.

1826 SCOTT Woodstock II. viii. 202 His appearance bordered..upon what is vulgarly called the queer.

1932 W. H. AUDEN in Rev. Eng. Stud. (1978) Aug. 294 An underground cottage frequented by the queer.

1995 J. HALBERSTAM Skin Shows vi. 143 [It] transforms the category of monster itself into an orgiastic celebration of the queer and the dangerous.

2. colloq. (freq. derogatory). A homosexual; esp. a male homosexual.
Although originally chiefly derogatory, since the late 1980s it has been used as a neutral or positive term, originally by some homosexuals (see QUEER adj.1 3).


1894 MARQUESS OF QUEENSBERRY Let. 1 Nov. in R. Ellmann Oscar Wilde (1987) xvi. 402, I write to tell you that it is a judgement on the whole lot of you. Montgomerys, The Snob Queers like Roseberry & certainly Christian hypocrite Gladstone.

1914 in Jrnl. Hist. Sexuality (1995) 5 593 Fourteen young men were invited..with the premise that they would have the opportunity of meeting some of the prominent ‘queers’.

1936 L. DUNCAN Over Wall xx. 277 There was even a little room..where the ‘fairies’, ‘pansies’, and ‘queers’ conducted their lewd practices.

1952 A. WILSON Hemlock & After I. iii. 58, I quite like queers if it comes to that, so long as they're not on the make.

1965 Spectator 19 Feb. 239/1 Smith pursues Lulu in Valletta only to discover that she is a queer.

1975 Amer. N. & Q. 13 146/2 Evidence that Sir Thopas is a ‘pansy’ or a ‘queer’, who would be ridiculed as a homosexual.

1988 Oregonian (Nexis) 1 July C2 The march, organized by the newly founded Queers United Against Closets, protested the ‘systematic censorship of news concerning gay and lesbian issues’, a statement by the group said.

1995 Time Out 6-13 Dec. 111/3 (advt.) Famously busy mixed gay club night, open to male and female queers.

2006 Daily Telegram (Superior, Wisconsin) (Nexis) 19 Sept., When push comes to shove, they use the Bible to hide the fact that they just don't like queers.


DERIVATIVES

{sm}queerdom n. the state or condition of being homosexual; homosexuals collectively.

1961 C. MACINNES in Partisan Rev. Jan.-Feb. 146/1 (heading) English *queerdom.

1965 New Statesman 9 July 58/1 Its climactic evocation of high Hapsburg queerdom at its annual drag ball.

1994 This Mag. (Toronto, Ont.) Nov. 14/3 Elena's idea of queerdom is a polymorphously perverse, all-inclusive left-of-centre community.





As an adjective.



1. a. Strange, odd, peculiar, eccentric. Also: of questionable character; suspicious, dubious. Cf. QUARE adj.
Some early examples may perhaps belong at or overlap with QUEER adj.2
In common use in this sense until the establishment of sense 3, since when it has become relatively rare.


1513 G. DOUGLAS in tr. Virgil Æneid VIII. Prol. 43 The cadgear..Calland the col{ygh}ear ane knaif and culroun full queyr.

1550 J. BALE Actes Eng. Votaryes II. 21 Ye Chronycles..contayne muche more truthe than their quere legendes.

1598 J. MARSTON Metamorph. Pigmalions Image 30 Show thy queere substance, worthlesse, most obsurd.

1621 W. YONGE Diary 27 Aug. (1848) 43 The emperor is in that quer case, that he is not able to bid battle. 1663 J. HEATH Flagellum 109 That the world may see what queer hypocrites his attendants were.

1741 S. RICHARDSON Pamela III. xxxii. 224, I have heard of many queer Pranks among my Bedfordshire Neighbours.

1793 T. PENNANT Lit. Life 20 Crossing and jostling came queer men of G-d, In rusty brown coats, and waistcoats of plaid.

1841 DICKENS Barnaby Rudge xxxix. 162 It was a queer fancy..but he was a queer subject altogether.

1856 C. M. YONGE Daisy Chain I. xx, Ethel was very queer and unformed, and could do nothing by herself.

1870 H. SMART Race for Wife i, In the queer old room with its still queerer attempts at decoration.

1885 Cent. Mag. May 43/2 It is queer, at this distance, to see the methods of Scott and Coleridge applied to the Indian legendary of Maine.

1930 W. FAULKNER As I Lay Dying xxxi. 81 He don't say nothing; just looks at me with them queer eyes of hisn that makes folks talk.

1958 J. KESSON White Bird Passes (1992) vi. 83 Quiet monks in brown cassocks chanting their queer, Latin words.

1993 F. COLLYMORE Twin-Ending 37 Yes, it's queer you disagree. But it's even queerer that you agree upon all the others. It's a queer thing anyhow, this twin business.

b. Sc. and Irish English. As an intensifier: = QUARE adj. 2.

1865 G. R. WYNNE Overton's Question 73 Aye, I'm a hignorant chap, as has never been to school, but I'm up to a queer lot of moves, and mother says I mayn't do bad.

1880 W. AITKEN Rhymes & Readings 19 And, losh, it was a tousy toon, And after nicht was queer an' rough tae.

1921 Hawick Express 12 Aug., There must bei a queer lot o' money in th' world yet{em}notwithstandin' short time an' bad trade.

1953 M. TRAYNOR Eng. Dial. Donegal 223/1 A queer deal, a great amount.

1990 B. ROCHE Poor Beast in Rain I. i. 9 We were queer and lucky not to be sent up the river that time boy.

1998 S. O'CONNELL Angel Bird 46 The cold was queer and fierce.

2. Out of sorts; unwell; faint, giddy. Formerly also (slang): {dag}drunk (obs.).

1749 M. COLLYER Lett. Felicia to Charlotte II. xxxv. 132, I must confess that I was in a very queer situation of mind: I was far from being easy.

1750 E. KIMBER Life Joe Thompson II. l. 182 All on a sudden, my Wife complained she was sick, and both myself and Sir Thomas found ourselves very queer and qualmish.

1781 S. CRISP Let. 1 Mar. in W. H. Hutton Burford Papers (1905) 60, I have been very queer for some time, sleepless and indigestion.

1800 W. B. RHODES Bombastes Furioso (1830) i 8 We feel ourselves a little queer. 1826 Sporting Mag. 18 285 Galloping..with a rummish team, and himself queer.

1837 DICKENS Pickwick Papers xliv. 486 Legs shaky{em}head queer{em}round and round{em}earthquaky sort of feeling{em}very.

1889 J. K. JEROME Three Men in Boat i. 14 So I set my face against the sea trip. Not, as I explained, upon my own account. I was never queer. But I was afraid for George.

1904 H. JAMES Golden Bowl I. xi. 197, I suppose people at the court of the Borgias may have watched each other begin to look queer after having had the honour of taking wine with the heads of the family.

1922 ‘R. CROMPTON’ Just{em}William xi. 213 ‘I jus'{em}jus' came over queer,’ he ended, remembering a phrase he had heard used recently by the charwoman.

1952 A. CHRISTIE Mrs. McGinty's Dead iv. 28 Either the husband's taken queer, or the old mother... With old McGinty, at least it was only she herself who came over queer.

1978 ‘F. PARRISH’ Sting of Honeybee iv. 43 Jake's off queer, wi' a rumblin' stummick.

2003 Times (Nexis) 20 Dec. 23, I also can't eat eggs as they make me feel queer.

3. colloq. (orig. U.S.). Of a person: homosexual. Hence: of or relating to homosexuals or homosexuality. Cf. earlier QUEER n.2 2.

Although originally chiefly derogatory (and still widely considered offensive, esp. when used by heterosexual people), from the late 1980s it began to be used as a neutral or positive term (originally of self-reference, by some homosexuals; cf. QUEER NATION n.) in place of gay or homosexual, without regard to, or in implicit denial of, its negative connotations. In some academic contexts it is the preferred adjective in the study of issues relating to homosexuality (cf. queer theory n. at Special uses 2); it is also sometimes used of sexual lifestyles that do not conform to conventional heterosexual behaviour, such as bisexuality or transgenderism.


1914 Los Angeles Times 19 Nov. II. 10/5 He said that the Ninety-six Club was the best; that it was composed of the ‘queer’ people... He said that the members sometimes spent hundreds of dollars on silk gowns, hosiery, etc.... At these ‘drags’ the ‘queer’ people have a good time.

1915 in A. Bennet Jrnl. 26 Mar. (1933) 550 An immense reunion of art students, painters, and queer people. Girls in fancy male costume, queer dancing, etc.

1919 in M. Duberman et al. Hidden from Hist. (1991) 304 Half the world is queer and the other half trade.

1936 J. G. COZZENS Men & Brethren i. 24 ‘He's not queer, or something, is he?’ ‘Lord, no! Worse than that. He's a convert.’

1939 C. ISHERWOOD Goodbye to Berlin 296 Men dressed as women?.. Do you mean they're queer?

1960 F. RAPHAEL Limits of Love I. v. 70 ‘Great thing about gay people...’ ‘Gay?’ Tessa said. ‘Bent, queer, you know. Homosexual.’

1987 Syracuse (N.Y.) Herald-Jrnl. 12 Oct. A6/3 Marchers..laughed when they saw one woman holding a sign that read ‘We're here because we're queer.’

1992 Nation (N.Y.) 16 Mar. 326/1 The ad..is thoroughly offensive to queer readers.

2006 Advocate 20 June 40 When TV's Buffy the Vampire Slayer wrapped in 2003, many queer viewers mourned the loss of its endearing gay witch, Willow.

4. U.S. colloq. to be queer for: to be fond of or keen on; to be attracted to.


1941 B. SCHULBERG What Makes Sammy Run? viii. 204 Well, Al, I don't know whether I'm just getting soft or whether I'm queer for you. But I'm going to give you one more chance.

1953 W. S. BURROUGHS Junkie ii. 28 She began talking about Jack. ‘I'm queer for Jack,’ she said. ‘He works at being a thief just like any job.’

1957 M. SHULMAN Rally round Flag, Boys! iv. 51 When..the cellars were finally snug and dry, Waldo promptly persuaded the homesteaders to fill them with..a huge, gleaming variety of tools. This took no great persuasion, for..the average commuter was queer for tools.

1971 V. LAKE Veronica 201, I always included blueberry picking as part of the children's daily activity because I'm queer for blueberries.

1991 J. SALES Los Gusanos xxii. 233 The yanquis are fed up now that Fidel is queer for Khrushchev.

PHRASES

(as) queer as a coot (slang): conspicuously or flamboyantly homosexual; (also) conspicuously odd or peculiar. Cf. COOT n.1 2b.

1949 K. WILLIAMS Diary 24 Feb. (1993) 39 Met this film agent, Brophy. Queer as a coot{em}film is to be made in Cocos Islands, obviously pornographic{em}I'm having nothing to do with it.

1961 N. COWARD Diary 5 Mar. (2000) 466, I do wish that years ago Cyril had faced up to the fact that he was as queer as a coot.

1963 N.Y. Times 14 Apr. 26/3 (Book Rev. sect.) Mistress of the cliché, penny-pinching, queer as a coot, dirty as a blanket Indian, Mrs. Green reared her children in actual poverty.

1975 Times 9 July 14/2 Bombus fragrans..sprinkles himself..with attar of roses, and..is as queer as a coot.

2004 J. GATHORNE-HARDY Half an Arch I. 20 A good-looking young man came towards him. Salisbury stopped and turned and followed the young man with his eyes. ‘Obviously queer,’ said Bob... ‘Queer as a coot.’

SPECIAL USES

S1. Parasynthetic and similative, as queer-looking, queer-tempered, etc., adjs.

1747 B. HOADLY Suspicious Husband IV. iv. 62 He was but a queer looking Son of a Bitch of a Surgeon.

1789 G. PARKER Life's Painter in J. S. Farmer Musa Pedestris (1964) 67 Fancy queer-gamm'd smutty Muns Was once my fav'rite man.

1825 J. NEAL Brother Jonathan II. 171 A little, modest, queer-looking brown girl.

1839 DICKENS Nicholas Nickleby x. 94 You are..the..longest-headed, queerest-tempered old coiner of gold and silver ever was.

1895 T. HARDY Tess (rev. ed.) xliii. 371 The queer-shaped flints.

1918 M. A. LOWNDES Out of War? vi. 91 The odd-tempered and queer-natured naval officer whom Fate had flung across her path.

1974 J. SEYMOUR Fat of Land (ed. 2) i. 19 As I dig in the garden I find medieval hand-wrought nails, old tiles, and queer-sized bricks, some without frogs.

2001 J. BOYLE Galloway Street 35, I can't understand a word they're saying anyway, it's all these queer-sounding words I've never heard before.

S2. queer fellow n. (a) chiefly Irish English and Naut., an odd or eccentric person, a ‘character’; (b) slang (orig. Mil.), a person in command or in charge.

1712 R. STEELE Spectator No. 474 {page}2 Let me be known all at once for a *queer Fellow, and avoided.

1814 F. BURNEY Wanderer II. xxvii. 186, I merely meant to play upon that confounded queer fellow, Riley. He's so cursed troublesome, and so confounded free, that I hate him horribly.

1883 J. F. T. KEANE On Blue-water 212 Remembering that incident, the ‘queer-fellow's’ disappearance didn't alarm me very much.

1910 D. W. BONE Brassbounder 64 D'ye think th' queer-fella' is goin' t' pay them prices for 'is kit?

1932 J. W. HARRIS Days of Endeavour 17 No matter what ship you serves your time in, you'll find there'll be a queer-feller.

1958 M. PROCTER Man in Ambush xii. 134 Mobsters, queer fellows, bar flies and layabouts.

1961 E. PARTRIDGE Dict. Slang Suppl. 1240/2 The queer fella, the person that happens to be in command: Regular Army: late c. 19-20.

1962 W. GRANVILLE Dict. Sailors' Slang 93/2 Queer fella, any merchant seaman who does not conform to the average type. A nautical eccentric.

1966 ‘L. LANE’ ABZ of Scouse II. 87 Whur's ther queer feller? Where is the boss or foreman whose name I don't know?

1990 B. ROCHE Poor Beast in Rain I. 5 Big Red O'Neill tossed his jersey out into the crowd after the Leinster Final and the queer fella here was the one that caught it.

Queer Street n. (also with lower-case initials) [an alternative derivation of this phrase < the name of Carey Street in London, site of the bankruptcy court, is unlikely, since the court was not located there until after 1840, and the phrase was apparently not originally restricted to financial difficulties] slang (orig. Brit.) an imaginary street where people in difficulties (esp. financial ones) are supposed to reside; (hence) the fact of being in a difficult position, in trouble, etc.

1811 Lexicon Balatronicum, *Queer Street, wrong, improper, contrary to one's wish. It is queer street, a cant phrase, to signify that it is wrong or different to our wish.

1821 P. EGAN Real Life in London I. xi. 186 Limping Billy was also evidently in queer-street.

1862 G. A. SALA Seven Sons of Mammon II. vi. 158 ‘When I saw him last, he seemed gêné and embarrassed, and spoke of the scarcity of money.’ ‘Surely he can't be travelling to Queer Street.’

1886 R. L. STEVENSON Strange Case Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde i. 11 The more it looks like Queer Street, the less I ask.

1936 Chron.-Telegram (Elyria, Ohio) 18 Apr. 9/1 Kirkpatrick was on queer street shortly after the opening bell when Clark let him have a right to the button.

1952 A. WILSON Hemlock & After III. i. 208 He enjoys a little flutter..and if he finds himself in Queer Street now and again, I'm sure no one would grudge him his bit of fun.

1980 J. WAINWRIGHT Man of Law xlvii. 222 If Patsold talks, Webb's in queer street.

2003 Timaru (N.Z.) Herald (Nexis) 12 Apr. 6 If you are suddenly faced with increased costs and a third knocked off your income, you are stranded in queer street.

queer theorist n. (also with capital initials) orig. U.S. an advocate or exponent of queer theory.


1992 K. PLUMMER Mod. Homosexualities I. i. 15 It feeds into a radical re-visioning, a task already started by the new *Queer Theorists.

2000 A. MORETON-ROBINSON Talkin' up to White Woman (2006) ii. 44 Some queer theorists include other desires within this framework, such as fetishism..while others reject such inclusion.

queer theory n. (also with capital initials) orig. U.S. an approach to social and cultural study which seeks to challenge or deconstruct traditional ideas of sexuality and gender, esp. the acceptance of heterosexuality as normative and the perception of a rigid dichotomy of male and female traits.

1990 Representations No. 32. 131 [The paper] was first presented..during the conference she organized on ‘*Queer Theory’..in February 1990.

1995 N.Y. Rev. Bks. 22 June 2 (advt.) It is required reading for everyone interested in Foucault's thought..as well as everyone interested in Queer Theory.

2003 Times Lit. Suppl. 7 Nov. 15/2 The overriding priority for queer theory is to get rid of the idea that some kinds of people, and some forms of sex, are more natural than others.






There are more variations it and some archaic meanings.
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Postby CollegePepper » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:50 pm

olywaguy wrote:Here are the definitions as quoted in the Oxford English Dictionary.

As a noun.


1. With the: that which is queer (in various senses). rare.

1826 SCOTT Woodstock II. viii. 202 His appearance bordered..upon what is vulgarly called the queer.

1932 W. H. AUDEN in Rev. Eng. Stud. (1978) Aug. 294 An underground cottage frequented by the queer.

1995 J. HALBERSTAM Skin Shows vi. 143 [It] transforms the category of monster itself into an orgiastic celebration of the queer and the dangerous.

2. colloq. (freq. derogatory). A homosexual; esp. a male homosexual.
Although originally chiefly derogatory, since the late 1980s it has been used as a neutral or positive term, originally by some homosexuals (see QUEER adj.1 3).


1894 MARQUESS OF QUEENSBERRY Let. 1 Nov. in R. Ellmann Oscar Wilde (1987) xvi. 402, I write to tell you that it is a judgement on the whole lot of you. Montgomerys, The Snob Queers like Roseberry & certainly Christian hypocrite Gladstone.

1914 in Jrnl. Hist. Sexuality (1995) 5 593 Fourteen young men were invited..with the premise that they would have the opportunity of meeting some of the prominent ‘queers’.

1936 L. DUNCAN Over Wall xx. 277 There was even a little room..where the ‘fairies’, ‘pansies’, and ‘queers’ conducted their lewd practices.

1952 A. WILSON Hemlock & After I. iii. 58, I quite like queers if it comes to that, so long as they're not on the make.

1965 Spectator 19 Feb. 239/1 Smith pursues Lulu in Valletta only to discover that she is a queer.

1975 Amer. N. & Q. 13 146/2 Evidence that Sir Thopas is a ‘pansy’ or a ‘queer’, who would be ridiculed as a homosexual.

1988 Oregonian (Nexis) 1 July C2 The march, organized by the newly founded Queers United Against Closets, protested the ‘systematic censorship of news concerning gay and lesbian issues’, a statement by the group said.

1995 Time Out 6-13 Dec. 111/3 (advt.) Famously busy mixed gay club night, open to male and female queers.

2006 Daily Telegram (Superior, Wisconsin) (Nexis) 19 Sept., When push comes to shove, they use the Bible to hide the fact that they just don't like queers.


DERIVATIVES

{sm}queerdom n. the state or condition of being homosexual; homosexuals collectively.

1961 C. MACINNES in Partisan Rev. Jan.-Feb. 146/1 (heading) English *queerdom.

1965 New Statesman 9 July 58/1 Its climactic evocation of high Hapsburg queerdom at its annual drag ball.

1994 This Mag. (Toronto, Ont.) Nov. 14/3 Elena's idea of queerdom is a polymorphously perverse, all-inclusive left-of-centre community.





As an adjective.



1. a. Strange, odd, peculiar, eccentric. Also: of questionable character; suspicious, dubious. Cf. QUARE adj.
Some early examples may perhaps belong at or overlap with QUEER adj.2
In common use in this sense until the establishment of sense 3, since when it has become relatively rare.


1513 G. DOUGLAS in tr. Virgil Æneid VIII. Prol. 43 The cadgear..Calland the col{ygh}ear ane knaif and culroun full queyr.

1550 J. BALE Actes Eng. Votaryes II. 21 Ye Chronycles..contayne muche more truthe than their quere legendes.

1598 J. MARSTON Metamorph. Pigmalions Image 30 Show thy queere substance, worthlesse, most obsurd.

1621 W. YONGE Diary 27 Aug. (1848) 43 The emperor is in that quer case, that he is not able to bid battle. 1663 J. HEATH Flagellum 109 That the world may see what queer hypocrites his attendants were.

1741 S. RICHARDSON Pamela III. xxxii. 224, I have heard of many queer Pranks among my Bedfordshire Neighbours.

1793 T. PENNANT Lit. Life 20 Crossing and jostling came queer men of G-d, In rusty brown coats, and waistcoats of plaid.

1841 DICKENS Barnaby Rudge xxxix. 162 It was a queer fancy..but he was a queer subject altogether.

1856 C. M. YONGE Daisy Chain I. xx, Ethel was very queer and unformed, and could do nothing by herself.

1870 H. SMART Race for Wife i, In the queer old room with its still queerer attempts at decoration.

1885 Cent. Mag. May 43/2 It is queer, at this distance, to see the methods of Scott and Coleridge applied to the Indian legendary of Maine.

1930 W. FAULKNER As I Lay Dying xxxi. 81 He don't say nothing; just looks at me with them queer eyes of hisn that makes folks talk.

1958 J. KESSON White Bird Passes (1992) vi. 83 Quiet monks in brown cassocks chanting their queer, Latin words.

1993 F. COLLYMORE Twin-Ending 37 Yes, it's queer you disagree. But it's even queerer that you agree upon all the others. It's a queer thing anyhow, this twin business.

b. Sc. and Irish English. As an intensifier: = QUARE adj. 2.

1865 G. R. WYNNE Overton's Question 73 Aye, I'm a hignorant chap, as has never been to school, but I'm up to a queer lot of moves, and mother says I mayn't do bad.

1880 W. AITKEN Rhymes & Readings 19 And, losh, it was a tousy toon, And after nicht was queer an' rough tae.

1921 Hawick Express 12 Aug., There must bei a queer lot o' money in th' world yet{em}notwithstandin' short time an' bad trade.

1953 M. TRAYNOR Eng. Dial. Donegal 223/1 A queer deal, a great amount.

1990 B. ROCHE Poor Beast in Rain I. i. 9 We were queer and lucky not to be sent up the river that time boy.

1998 S. O'CONNELL Angel Bird 46 The cold was queer and fierce.

2. Out of sorts; unwell; faint, giddy. Formerly also (slang): {dag}drunk (obs.).

1749 M. COLLYER Lett. Felicia to Charlotte II. xxxv. 132, I must confess that I was in a very queer situation of mind: I was far from being easy.

1750 E. KIMBER Life Joe Thompson II. l. 182 All on a sudden, my Wife complained she was sick, and both myself and Sir Thomas found ourselves very queer and qualmish.

1781 S. CRISP Let. 1 Mar. in W. H. Hutton Burford Papers (1905) 60, I have been very queer for some time, sleepless and indigestion.

1800 W. B. RHODES Bombastes Furioso (1830) i 8 We feel ourselves a little queer. 1826 Sporting Mag. 18 285 Galloping..with a rummish team, and himself queer.

1837 DICKENS Pickwick Papers xliv. 486 Legs shaky{em}head queer{em}round and round{em}earthquaky sort of feeling{em}very.

1889 J. K. JEROME Three Men in Boat i. 14 So I set my face against the sea trip. Not, as I explained, upon my own account. I was never queer. But I was afraid for George.

1904 H. JAMES Golden Bowl I. xi. 197, I suppose people at the court of the Borgias may have watched each other begin to look queer after having had the honour of taking wine with the heads of the family.

1922 ‘R. CROMPTON’ Just{em}William xi. 213 ‘I jus'{em}jus' came over queer,’ he ended, remembering a phrase he had heard used recently by the charwoman.

1952 A. CHRISTIE Mrs. McGinty's Dead iv. 28 Either the husband's taken queer, or the old mother... With old McGinty, at least it was only she herself who came over queer.

1978 ‘F. PARRISH’ Sting of Honeybee iv. 43 Jake's off queer, wi' a rumblin' stummick.

2003 Times (Nexis) 20 Dec. 23, I also can't eat eggs as they make me feel queer.

3. colloq. (orig. U.S.). Of a person: homosexual. Hence: of or relating to homosexuals or homosexuality. Cf. earlier QUEER n.2 2.

Although originally chiefly derogatory (and still widely considered offensive, esp. when used by heterosexual people), from the late 1980s it began to be used as a neutral or positive term (originally of self-reference, by some homosexuals; cf. QUEER NATION n.) in place of gay or homosexual, without regard to, or in implicit denial of, its negative connotations. In some academic contexts it is the preferred adjective in the study of issues relating to homosexuality (cf. queer theory n. at Special uses 2); it is also sometimes used of sexual lifestyles that do not conform to conventional heterosexual behaviour, such as bisexuality or transgenderism.


1914 Los Angeles Times 19 Nov. II. 10/5 He said that the Ninety-six Club was the best; that it was composed of the ‘queer’ people... He said that the members sometimes spent hundreds of dollars on silk gowns, hosiery, etc.... At these ‘drags’ the ‘queer’ people have a good time.

1915 in A. Bennet Jrnl. 26 Mar. (1933) 550 An immense reunion of art students, painters, and queer people. Girls in fancy male costume, queer dancing, etc.

1919 in M. Duberman et al. Hidden from Hist. (1991) 304 Half the world is queer and the other half trade.

1936 J. G. COZZENS Men & Brethren i. 24 ‘He's not queer, or something, is he?’ ‘Lord, no! Worse than that. He's a convert.’

1939 C. ISHERWOOD Goodbye to Berlin 296 Men dressed as women?.. Do you mean they're queer?

1960 F. RAPHAEL Limits of Love I. v. 70 ‘Great thing about gay people...’ ‘Gay?’ Tessa said. ‘Bent, queer, you know. Homosexual.’

1987 Syracuse (N.Y.) Herald-Jrnl. 12 Oct. A6/3 Marchers..laughed when they saw one woman holding a sign that read ‘We're here because we're queer.’

1992 Nation (N.Y.) 16 Mar. 326/1 The ad..is thoroughly offensive to queer readers.

2006 Advocate 20 June 40 When TV's Buffy the Vampire Slayer wrapped in 2003, many queer viewers mourned the loss of its endearing gay witch, Willow.

4. U.S. colloq. to be queer for: to be fond of or keen on; to be attracted to.


1941 B. SCHULBERG What Makes Sammy Run? viii. 204 Well, Al, I don't know whether I'm just getting soft or whether I'm queer for you. But I'm going to give you one more chance.

1953 W. S. BURROUGHS Junkie ii. 28 She began talking about Jack. ‘I'm queer for Jack,’ she said. ‘He works at being a thief just like any job.’

1957 M. SHULMAN Rally round Flag, Boys! iv. 51 When..the cellars were finally snug and dry, Waldo promptly persuaded the homesteaders to fill them with..a huge, gleaming variety of tools. This took no great persuasion, for..the average commuter was queer for tools.

1971 V. LAKE Veronica 201, I always included blueberry picking as part of the children's daily activity because I'm queer for blueberries.

1991 J. SALES Los Gusanos xxii. 233 The yanquis are fed up now that Fidel is queer for Khrushchev.

PHRASES

(as) queer as a coot (slang): conspicuously or flamboyantly homosexual; (also) conspicuously odd or peculiar. Cf. COOT n.1 2b.

1949 K. WILLIAMS Diary 24 Feb. (1993) 39 Met this film agent, Brophy. Queer as a coot{em}film is to be made in Cocos Islands, obviously pornographic{em}I'm having nothing to do with it.

1961 N. COWARD Diary 5 Mar. (2000) 466, I do wish that years ago Cyril had faced up to the fact that he was as queer as a coot.

1963 N.Y. Times 14 Apr. 26/3 (Book Rev. sect.) Mistress of the cliché, penny-pinching, queer as a coot, dirty as a blanket Indian, Mrs. Green reared her children in actual poverty.

1975 Times 9 July 14/2 Bombus fragrans..sprinkles himself..with attar of roses, and..is as queer as a coot.

2004 J. GATHORNE-HARDY Half an Arch I. 20 A good-looking young man came towards him. Salisbury stopped and turned and followed the young man with his eyes. ‘Obviously queer,’ said Bob... ‘Queer as a coot.’

SPECIAL USES

S1. Parasynthetic and similative, as queer-looking, queer-tempered, etc., adjs.

1747 B. HOADLY Suspicious Husband IV. iv. 62 He was but a queer looking Son of a Bitch of a Surgeon.

1789 G. PARKER Life's Painter in J. S. Farmer Musa Pedestris (1964) 67 Fancy queer-gamm'd smutty Muns Was once my fav'rite man.

1825 J. NEAL Brother Jonathan II. 171 A little, modest, queer-looking brown girl.

1839 DICKENS Nicholas Nickleby x. 94 You are..the..longest-headed, queerest-tempered old coiner of gold and silver ever was.

1895 T. HARDY Tess (rev. ed.) xliii. 371 The queer-shaped flints.

1918 M. A. LOWNDES Out of War? vi. 91 The odd-tempered and queer-natured naval officer whom Fate had flung across her path.

1974 J. SEYMOUR Fat of Land (ed. 2) i. 19 As I dig in the garden I find medieval hand-wrought nails, old tiles, and queer-sized bricks, some without frogs.

2001 J. BOYLE Galloway Street 35, I can't understand a word they're saying anyway, it's all these queer-sounding words I've never heard before.

S2. queer fellow n. (a) chiefly Irish English and Naut., an odd or eccentric person, a ‘character’; (b) slang (orig. Mil.), a person in command or in charge.

1712 R. STEELE Spectator No. 474 {page}2 Let me be known all at once for a *queer Fellow, and avoided.

1814 F. BURNEY Wanderer II. xxvii. 186, I merely meant to play upon that confounded queer fellow, Riley. He's so cursed troublesome, and so confounded free, that I hate him horribly.

1883 J. F. T. KEANE On Blue-water 212 Remembering that incident, the ‘queer-fellow's’ disappearance didn't alarm me very much.

1910 D. W. BONE Brassbounder 64 D'ye think th' queer-fella' is goin' t' pay them prices for 'is kit?

1932 J. W. HARRIS Days of Endeavour 17 No matter what ship you serves your time in, you'll find there'll be a queer-feller.

1958 M. PROCTER Man in Ambush xii. 134 Mobsters, queer fellows, bar flies and layabouts.

1961 E. PARTRIDGE Dict. Slang Suppl. 1240/2 The queer fella, the person that happens to be in command: Regular Army: late c. 19-20.

1962 W. GRANVILLE Dict. Sailors' Slang 93/2 Queer fella, any merchant seaman who does not conform to the average type. A nautical eccentric.

1966 ‘L. LANE’ ABZ of Scouse II. 87 Whur's ther queer feller? Where is the boss or foreman whose name I don't know?

1990 B. ROCHE Poor Beast in Rain I. 5 Big Red O'Neill tossed his jersey out into the crowd after the Leinster Final and the queer fella here was the one that caught it.

Queer Street n. (also with lower-case initials) [an alternative derivation of this phrase < the name of Carey Street in London, site of the bankruptcy court, is unlikely, since the court was not located there until after 1840, and the phrase was apparently not originally restricted to financial difficulties] slang (orig. Brit.) an imaginary street where people in difficulties (esp. financial ones) are supposed to reside; (hence) the fact of being in a difficult position, in trouble, etc.

1811 Lexicon Balatronicum, *Queer Street, wrong, improper, contrary to one's wish. It is queer street, a cant phrase, to signify that it is wrong or different to our wish.

1821 P. EGAN Real Life in London I. xi. 186 Limping Billy was also evidently in queer-street.

1862 G. A. SALA Seven Sons of Mammon II. vi. 158 ‘When I saw him last, he seemed gêné and embarrassed, and spoke of the scarcity of money.’ ‘Surely he can't be travelling to Queer Street.’

1886 R. L. STEVENSON Strange Case Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde i. 11 The more it looks like Queer Street, the less I ask.

1936 Chron.-Telegram (Elyria, Ohio) 18 Apr. 9/1 Kirkpatrick was on queer street shortly after the opening bell when Clark let him have a right to the button.

1952 A. WILSON Hemlock & After III. i. 208 He enjoys a little flutter..and if he finds himself in Queer Street now and again, I'm sure no one would grudge him his bit of fun.

1980 J. WAINWRIGHT Man of Law xlvii. 222 If Patsold talks, Webb's in queer street.

2003 Timaru (N.Z.) Herald (Nexis) 12 Apr. 6 If you are suddenly faced with increased costs and a third knocked off your income, you are stranded in queer street.

queer theorist n. (also with capital initials) orig. U.S. an advocate or exponent of queer theory.


1992 K. PLUMMER Mod. Homosexualities I. i. 15 It feeds into a radical re-visioning, a task already started by the new *Queer Theorists.

2000 A. MORETON-ROBINSON Talkin' up to White Woman (2006) ii. 44 Some queer theorists include other desires within this framework, such as fetishism..while others reject such inclusion.

queer theory n. (also with capital initials) orig. U.S. an approach to social and cultural study which seeks to challenge or deconstruct traditional ideas of sexuality and gender, esp. the acceptance of heterosexuality as normative and the perception of a rigid dichotomy of male and female traits.

1990 Representations No. 32. 131 [The paper] was first presented..during the conference she organized on ‘*Queer Theory’..in February 1990.

1995 N.Y. Rev. Bks. 22 June 2 (advt.) It is required reading for everyone interested in Foucault's thought..as well as everyone interested in Queer Theory.

2003 Times Lit. Suppl. 7 Nov. 15/2 The overriding priority for queer theory is to get rid of the idea that some kinds of people, and some forms of sex, are more natural than others.






There are more variations it and some archaic meanings.


Notice your bolded meanings clearly state they are "slang"/colloq. meanings ;) I made sure to differentiate in my post.

Either way Masculinity is off base when he says the term "literally means feminine male".
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Postby Screamer » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:59 pm

It's like "reek" backwards
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Postby masculinity » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:39 am

CollegePepper wrote:Notice your bolded meanings clearly state they are "slang"/colloq. meanings ;) I made sure to differentiate in my post.

Either way Masculinity is off base when he says the term "literally means feminine male".


olywaguy wrote:Here are the definitions as quoted in the Oxford English Dictionary.

As a noun.

...


There are more variations it and some archaic meanings.


CollegePepper wrote:The literal non-slang meaning for "Queer" according to dictionary.com is as follows:
queer
   /kwɪər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kweer] Show IPA Pronunciation
adjective, -er, -est, verb, noun
–adjective
1. strange or odd from a conventional viewpoint; unusually different; singular: a queer notion of justice.
2. of a questionable nature or character; suspicious; shady: Something queer about the language of the prospectus kept investors away.
3. not feeling physically right or well; giddy, faint, or qualmish: to feel queer.
4. mentally unbalanced or deranged.


I apologise, I used 'literal' in the sense of its actual usage, rather than the dictionary meaning. The dictionary defines terms according to what is being 'politically' correct. And in the West the concept of 'homosexuality' rules, so they can't say queer means effeminate, passive males.

But, the scholars have no such limiations.

Here are excerpts from "Passive Roles", from a series of articles by Rictor Norton, titled, "A critique of social constructionism and Post modern Queer thoery":

excerpts from "Passive Roles", from a series of articles by Rictor Norton, titled, "A critique of social constructionism and Post modern Queer thoery" wrote:But the fact of the matter is that a great many indigenous societies didhave words for ‘the homosexual’. By this I mean that they had words which identified a homosexual personality type, not matching the sexological psychopathological personality disorder (which, baldly stated thus, undoubtedly is a modern social construct), but words roughly equivalent to modern queers – words which demonstrate a consciousness (albeit often contemptuous) of a queer stereotype or gay identity. Here are just a few words for queers from many hundreds: in the Middle East the xanitha plays the receptive role with older or richer men; in Nicaragua el cochon; in Italy the arruso and ricchione, andfemmenella, little female, for the transvestite; Loca and maricón in Latin America; the teresita in Argentina; bicha and veado in Brazil; masisi in Haiti; zamel in North Africa. In many languages the generic term for a male homosexual is derived from a female name: Spanish maricón andmariquita derive from María; Italian checca derives from Francesca; Flemish janet derives from French Jeannette; a Portuguese queer is anAdelaida; in England queer men have called themselves Marys, Mary-Annes, mollies, nancy boys, nellies.

Most – but not all – of these labels are derogatory stigma applied to the fucked rather than the fucker. This is also true of most modern non-scientific words for homosexuals."


And please note that Ricky Norton is speaking for the concept of 'homosexuality' and its application across ages and cultures. He emphasizes that there was indeed a personality type considered different and that a distinct sexual orientation.

If indeed there was a distinct sexual orientation in the past, then it was a passive, effeminate orientation... not an orientation for all male sexual desire for men. Only for the desire to be inserted of the effeminate male. They recognized a special class of males that they called third sex (i.e. partly male and partly female; male from outside, female from inside) that sought receptive anal/ oral sex from men as a fulfillment of their feminine nature.

A man who desired another male, but that desire was either about penetrating the male or was not about penetrative sex at all, was not seen as 'having a different orientation'. He was part of the 'male' or 'men's' gender... represented by manhood, something that is today called 'straight'.

CAN YOU TELL ME, WHY SHOULD A MASCULINE MALE WHO IS NOT PARTICULARLY OR AT ALL INTERESTED IN RECEIVING ANAL SEX TAKE ON ALL THAT STIGMA ATTACHED WITH FEMININE MALE ATTRACTION FOR MEN, WHEN IT IS NOT DUE TO HIM EITHER BIOLOGICALLY OR HISTORICALLY.
Last edited by masculinity on Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:40 am, edited 4 times in total.
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby masculinity » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:06 am

excerpt from "Passive roles" by Rictor Norton wrote:Most – but not all – of these labels are derogatory stigma applied to the fucked rather than the fucker. This is also true of most modern non-scientific words for homosexuals."


... and Queer, gay, pansy, fruit, ladyboy, fairy, etc... are just some of those modern non-scientific names... call them literal meanings, or slang... but they are the real meanings, not the dictionary ones.
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby masculinity » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:22 am

Only an (exclusive) sexual interest in passive anal/ oral sex is feminine or third sex in nature, but the concept of 'homosexuality' cleverly makes all kinds of male interest in men 'feminine' or 'queer' and thus stigmatizing these desires for straight males.

Then using this stigma the Forces of Heterosexualization create extreme hostility and fear in the 'masculine' (straight male) space so that masculine males, now called straights, are forced to disown their same sex needs for the fear of being labeled 'fag', and thus 'not a man' and feminine.

... while all this goes on behind the scenes, unacknowledged, because the formal, literal definitions of gay and straight don't leave any space for considering the gender aspect.
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby catapult » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:56 pm

So, if I could dumb this down a bit, is masculinity campaigning for or saying that:

Only men who desire to assume the feminine role in same-sex sex should be considered gay, queer, poof, queen, cumdumpster and a third sex?

And that all other men with any level of desire for same sex activity, but not desiring to assume the feminine role, should not be called or considered gay, queer or a third sex?

And that all men would be liberated socially and emotionally by this more clear distinction between "feminine gays" and men who just happen to like men, either full or part time?
Last edited by catapult on Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Pazuzu P. Sasquatch » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:18 pm

There's a fine yet discernable line between:

A) defining one's terms for ease of communication

and:

B) pseudointellectual jerking off.
When I was driving once, I saw this painted on a bridge: "I don't want the world. I just want your half."
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Postby edu999 » Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:01 pm

Pazuzu P. Sasquatch wrote:There's a fine yet discernable line between:

A) defining one's terms for ease of communication

and:

B) pseudointellectual jerking off.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby dracuscalico » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:58 pm

When zuzu and edu, "The Dynamic Duo of Diss"...(double-snap!)... team up start going for someone's jugular... that's the time to "duck and cover !".... :wink:
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Postby masculinity » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:40 am

catapult wrote:So, if I could dumb this down a bit, is masculinity campaigning for or saying that:

Only men who desire to assume the feminine role in same-sex sex should be considered gay, queer, poof, queen, cumdumpster and a third sex?


Yes and you have summarized it quite well. That's biology, that's history and that's the contemporary culture all across the world, except in the West, where the truth is distorted a lot.

This desire to assume a feminine role has a biological base. It is this feminine desire that all those researches on 'homosexuals' find out which they wrongly attribute to 'man's sexual desire for men', i.e., their sexual orientation, when its actually their gender orientation -- whether its the brain theory or the 'gay gait' theory.

catapult wrote:And that all other men with any level of desire for same sex activity, but not desiring to assume the feminine role, should not be called or considered gay, queer or a third sex?

Well, let's say this was the position before the concept of 'homosexuality' grouped all kinds of male desire for men as 'effeminate' and 'queer', and designated all kinds of male desire for women as 'masculine' and 'straight'. Earlier, at one level, some kinds of sex acts with males as well some kinds of sex acts with females were considered manly and some kinds of sex acts with males and some kinds of sex acts with females were considered queer.

However, this is still not a perfect classification of males, meaning, although its far more superior a classification than 'sexual orientation', it still doesn't totally correspond to human nature/biology... because, as per human nature... the gender identities of 'man' and 'queer', should not have any element of sexual preference at all -- Queers are males that are transgendered, irrespective of whether they like active sex, passive sex or sex with women. This is how the original classification of 'straight' and 'queer' stood, several thousands of years ago (and still does in some ancient tribes -- like the Indian American Tribes). I have several documented evidences of this too.

catapult wrote:And that all men would be liberated socially and emotionally by this more clear distinction between "feminine gays" and men who just happen to like men, either full or part time?

Exactly... we will return to a position like that which existed in the ancient Greece, or at least that exists in most non-Westernized cultures today.

This would liberate male sexual interest in men as such from the stigmatized queer category and make it accessible to straight men.

However, like I said before, this is not the best or most humane systems of classification of males. This classification, still stigmatizes receptive anal or oral sex as effeminate or queer. And there is no biological basis for this association. Nor that the penetrator role is manly. However, what has happened is that masculine males have adopted 'penetrator' role as their gender/sexual role, while the feminine males adopted the 'penetrated' status as a social assertion of their innate femininity. However, this link between them is still artificially created. Just like the link between Straight and heterosexuality and 'gay' and 'man's sexual need for men' has been artificially brought about through social engineering.

Masculinity and Femininity are innate traits -- they can't be altered by gender and sexual roles that the society ascribes to men, women and queers. They just get misrepresented by these roles, and act as innumerable pressures on men and queers.

That which suffers is masculine-male-desire-for-men as well Queer-desire-for-women.
Last edited by masculinity on Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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