Not gay enough?

Discussion on what it means to be straight acting, whether it's good, bad or indifferent.

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Not gay enough?

Postby lazyrascal » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:58 am

Has anyone on this site aver been looked down on by an effeminate gay man for not being "feminine enough?" I was at a club in San Francisco and this guy dying to put lipstick and mascara on my face. I just let him do it from fear of not being accepted by fellow gays.
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Postby Cachasa » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:37 pm

Yes once or twice. Other guys have said I'm not gay enough. Just ignore them and find other friends, That's what I do.

Also, I find lots of gay activists and academics frown upon SA guys for "not accepting themselves" or "assimilating to the majority" or "undermining the gay rights movement."

It's weird because Lesbian writers have been dealing with butch/fem issues for decades but it's a relatively recent phenomenon for gay men.

They seem offended by SA men, maybe we undermine their "gay identity"?
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Postby glas_scot » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:15 pm

Not way in hell am I going to "act" feminine just because I'm homosexual. My sexuality is a small part of who I am and I will not put up with people who think I need to act "gay" just because of this. People like that annoy the hell out of me.
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Postby Sportsguy » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:41 pm

Unfortunately, I have been told this a few times! I have had friends tell me that guys will not approach me because they think I am straight. (this is at gay events too)!!
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Postby Pazuzu P. Sasquatch » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:06 pm

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The only thing that pisses me off more than ignorant straights is gays who want to tell me "how to be gay."
When I was driving once, I saw this painted on a bridge: "I don't want the world. I just want your half."
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Postby furface » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:46 pm

Rascal: No one has the right to tell you how to be gay; period!

All ya have to be is true to yourself and comfortable in your own skin. That's it; nothing more and certainly nothing less.

Over the past 45+ years many a person has told me I can't be gay 'cause I don't act gay. Haven't a clue how to act gay, though I can 'camp' it up if'n necessary. And more than one friendly barkeep has leaned across the bar and whispered "You know this is a gay bar?" And along that line I've found those who want ya to fab it up are activists or unsure of themselves; or frequently both.

Your life, your rules. Be yourself and don't look back.
"Do not ascribe malice to that which can be reasonably explained by ignorance ... or incompetence."
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Postby matinee » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:07 am

Here is a situation from last week in a bear bar

Hey, you are hot! Want to have "fun"? (fun as in sex somewhere in the corner)

No, I just don't do casual sex.

It's just sex!!! What, are you straight or something?

I just walked away. I can't handle it.

Are there any men out there that date first and shag AFTER there is an actual relationship? Am I weird, stupid or a total prude?
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Postby Cachasa » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:04 am

matinee wrote:Here is a situation from last week in a bear bar

Hey, you are hot! Want to have "fun"? (fun as in sex somewhere in the corner)

No, I just don't do casual sex.

It's just sex!!! What, are you straight or something?

I just walked away. I can't handle it.

Are there any men out there that date first and shag AFTER there is an actual relationship? Am I weird, stupid or a total prude?


hahahaha

sorry, but that's a really funny story. Which bar was it? Boots? or Woodies? Now I have to ask my cub friend what "really" goes on in those places.

But on a serious note you're not stupid or a prude. You're smart and have standards.
I think that once a gay guy reaches a certain level of emotional maturity he stops wanting to f**k on the first date and actually build a relationship first.
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Postby Pazuzu P. Sasquatch » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:12 am

I'm not sure "casual sex" equates to "emotional immaturity." (I speak as someone in year 7 of a monogamous relationship.) Two grownups who decide to have some mutually-agreed-upon fun aren't necessarily to be frowned upon, any more than are those of us who find monogamy a turn-on.

It's more a question of self-knowledge and integrity than the number of holes being poked.
When I was driving once, I saw this painted on a bridge: "I don't want the world. I just want your half."
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Postby Odeh » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:47 pm

So the "logic" is IF a male has a sexual interest in another male..THEN males
who have a sexual interest in other males are assumed to go off and have
sex right then and there...

Males who don't have a sexual interest in other males but females don't
go off and have sex right then and there it is assumed..(must have never
been in a "straight" bar @ last call on a Saturday night)..

It takes(20 mins.) longer with females because one has to consider children and paternity suits I guess


Wonder where these attitudes and assumptions come from???
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Postby Odeh » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:51 pm

The clinics are full because of a lot of "skankism" in the "gay" male
community..
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Postby Pazuzu P. Sasquatch » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:27 am

Unsafe skankism, not to put too fine a point on it.

I'd reply to your first post, but I can't really make out exactly what you're trying to say. . . . Is that you, Masculinity?
When I was driving once, I saw this painted on a bridge: "I don't want the world. I just want your half."
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Re: Not gay enough?

Postby michaelk69 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:06 am

lazyrascal wrote:Has anyone on this site aver been looked down on by an effeminate gay man for not being "feminine enough?"


i can honestly say that i've never experienced anything even remotely like this, nope. And i have experienced lots of stuff, lol . . .
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Postby Pazuzu P. Sasquatch » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:26 am

You've never had some angry queen tell you what a self-hating phony you are because you don't act like a bitchy woman? Really?
When I was driving once, I saw this painted on a bridge: "I don't want the world. I just want your half."
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Postby michaelk69 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:01 pm

Pazuzu P. Sasquatch wrote:You've never had some angry queen tell you what a self-hating phony you are because you don't act like a bitchy woman? Really?


Nope. Really.

I've had them flirt with me. I've had them ignore me. But I've never had someone like that try and change my behavior in any way . . . honest.

Or maybe I just didn't notice, lol . ..

But anyway, the point is, whether you are butch or feminine, outgoing or shy, athletic or . .. not . . . jeez, don't ever let anyone tell you what to be or not to be.

Learning to love yourself is the greatest love of all, you know, lol . ..
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Postby Lesley R. Charles » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:12 pm

Michael,

You are so right. I agree, be who you are, don't let anybody change you into what you are not.
Come check me out on MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/lesleycharles
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Postby Pazuzu P. Sasquatch » Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:26 pm

I agree totally, and. . . . I expect the same courtesy afforded to me.
When I was driving once, I saw this painted on a bridge: "I don't want the world. I just want your half."
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Postby Schlodesss » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:28 pm

Yeah it happened once...

I was convinced by a buddy and his BF, both fairly masculine regular dudes, who had this group of friends who were "bears" and they did "breakfast with the bears" every Sunday morning... I'll try anything once, so I met them at the restaurant and went.

First mistake was pulling up in a loud muscle car [my black 89 LX 5.0 all done up]. They just kinda looked at it like it was a polluting loud anti Christ.

Anyways, get inside and I have never been made to feel so uncomfortable in my entire life, for starters they were a bunch of *$#*@# queens with facial hair... that sat around gossiping, making fun of femmy Gay guys [I was like..HUH?] and just bitchy assholes in general.

Aside from my buddy and his BF who noticed this all [they apologized as soon as we got outside] the rest of them never spoke a word to me through breakfast... nothing...

They were having a BBQ later on that afternoon, the group of them and my friends were gonna go.. my friends asked in front of them if I wanted to come... I looked at the rest of them and said "nah that's ok, I have plans.... catch ya later."

I ran across the street jumped in my Stang, pulled out, got the car pointed straight, put the clutch back IN, matted it to about 5800, and let it hang and left about 200 feet of rubber through 4 gear changes up the main drag the restaurant was on.

I knew they would just think it was "fabulous". :roll:
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Postby michaelk69 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:13 am

Great story, and good on ya, Shlod . . . and that is what I am talking about . .. if you come across people like that, then f**k 'em . . . don't ever let them make you feel bad about yourself.

Ninety-nine out of 100 times, people who act like that are the most insecure people on the planet.
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Postby chidiver » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:29 am

I have to agree about the "bear" thing. I think that the "bear movement" (assuming it ever existed) was hijacked by fat femmy guys with beards.
Homosexuality is like duck hunting. Interesting only to those who practice it, and for those who want to stop it.
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Postby Pazuzu P. Sasquatch » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:31 am

Sadly it, like leather, has long been just another form of drag. . . . Guess it's easier to go to the zoo and buy a T-shirt with a bear on it than it is to watch your diet and take a walk now and then.
When I was driving once, I saw this painted on a bridge: "I don't want the world. I just want your half."
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Postby Odeh » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:12 pm

No..this is not Masculinity..even though I am inclined to agree with him up
to a certain point..and given some of the antics,attitudes and baggage in
the gay community am getting more inclined to agree with him..

The gay community claims to be open and inclusive but yet they often do
the same things they accuse the Right of doing..if you don't conform to their standards you are not "gay"...who died and left them in charge??


My point above was "gay" @ this point and place (West) means people
who are attracted to the same gender...thats all...nothing more or
nothing less...

The extra stuff has no logical connection is: if gay=must sleep around
must like this or that..who originally set this extra stuff up??...

Now..bears..I always thought people who were just too lazy to go to the
gym and who never got hit on in the clubs so they thought they would form their own group..leathers I thought a bunch of sexual freaks..

I am starting to suspect they gay people who are really into the standard
gay ideology are people who were socially rejected growing up so in turn
they go into cliques and reject others..the more they didn't fit into mainstream masculine society.. the more gay radical they are..

Went to a party once sponsored by a national gay organization and the majority of the conversation seemed to be who had who from what chapter at what regional meeting...who all had the hot member from that city chapter..lots of insecurity and immaturity I think..
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Postby chidiver » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:50 pm

Interesting thought...

Odeh wrote: I am starting to suspect they gay people who are really into the standard gay ideology are people who were socially rejected growing up so in turn they go into cliques and reject others..the more they didn't fit into mainstream masculine society.. the more gay radical they are..



I joined a gay ski club this winter. Our meetings take place at a neighborhood gay bar. After one Sunday meeting that ended around 6:00PM, in an uncrowded bar someone noticed that their ski jacket was missing. Afterword, a few guys went to another bar and one of their coats was ripped off too! I've been hanging around all kinds of straight bars in the city for almost 20 years and have never heard of anything being stolen by another patron. WTF?

I've been on a couple of their trips, and there are maybe one in ten of the guys that I would choose to hang out with. Way too much bitching and sniping at one another.
Homosexuality is like duck hunting. Interesting only to those who practice it, and for those who want to stop it.
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Postby Odeh » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:52 pm

I am wondering if there is as much strife and drama in co-ed organizations
as it seems to be in many gay organizations or any organization where there
is sexual tension where people could strongly be attracted to each other??
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Postby Odeh » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:55 pm

A gay coat thief following the ski organization from bar to bar???
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