Why do some gays out there worry about being masculine...

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Why do some gays out there worry about being masculine...

Postby Desperate » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:54 am

...when being gay makes a person less of a man anyway?

Why do some gays out there worry about being masculine when being gay makes a person less of a man anyway?

Isn't a gay further digging "himself" back into the closet by denying his true feminine personality? A person exits RIGHT OUT OF MANHOOD as "he" enters LEFT INTO GAYHOOD. I'd say that, for all you "straight-acting" gays out there, it's time to freely start letting out your lisp, lilt, lift, wrist, twist, and swish. Basically, you'll be letting out your inner chick. You know you desperately want to. Why try to be something that you're not? In other words, why are you acting straight when you're not? I mean, come on, we already know that you're gay. Why are you steadily busy trying to hide your sexual orientation when gays are notoriously known for flaunting their sexuality because they can't take the pressure anymore? One way to flaunt your sexuality is to stop suppressing the annoying, effeminate, and flamboyant mannerisms that you're too ashamed or embarrassed to reveal. In this modern day and age, a gay has to learn how to be "himself". I'm merely helping you to feel freer and less tortured and less tormented. When one is gay, that person doesn't care what society and others thinks of "him". Actually, a gay really doesn't care much about anything. Homosexuals are lucky to have a worry-free life and to live in a worry-free environment. Just think about it, "masculine" gays, a worry-free existence! How amazing would that be?!!! Only if you could find the strength to relax and be yourselves, you wouldn't be concerned with trying to "pass as straight", for which you're not doing a very convincing job.
Being gay means being feminine!
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Postby Earl Butz » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:39 am

Sexuality is a spectrum or a rainbow if you prefer. You have your girly men and your macho men and everything in between.

But you might be right....maybe we are denying our true selves. Or maybe not. I just act how I act. I've been told it's not very gay at all. :?
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Postby Daknee » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:55 am

"...when being gay makes a person less of a man anyway? "

"Why do some gays out there worry about being masculine when being gay makes a person less of a man anyway? "

Desparate I disagree with these statements. Being gay doe not make a person less of a man. This is the stereotyped persona the hetro world wants and promotes us all to think.

For me I am a human being period. As an individual human being I am comprised of many facets. One of those facests just happens to include liking men. That in it self does not make me less of a man. What I try to advocate is that I am equal to any man out there no matter what. As I said I am a human being. What we as homosexuals face today is no different that what any stereotyped race may be going through. For example, at one time the Black race was thought of or portrayed as dumb and ignorant. But because many of that race continued to advocate and constructively eliminate that image; that image or stereoytype is no longer portrayed. Are there dumb and ignorant Black people? Yes, but that does not define the race. Just as Earl as stated. Sexuality is a spectrum. However that spectrum does not apply only to homosexuals. There is a spectrum present in the hetrosexal world too.
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Postby Pazuzu P. Sasquatch » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:02 am

Desperate,

There's nothing wrong with being a feminine guy, whether one prefers guys or women. But you've really kind of answered your own question when you assume that a masculine gay man is "denying his true feminine personality."

In my mind this website exists, at least in part, as a reaction to the kind of crap you're spouting above -- an insistence that, if a guy likes guys, there's some inner girly-girl just busting to get out of him and that there's an inherent dishonesty about any gay guy who doesn't lisp, flip his wrists, etc.

That's really bullshit. I've got gay friends who are quite feminine. They are who they are, and if someone's a decent person, I don't care much about their mannerisms. But I'm not "oppressing" them when I myself don't act that way, and I'd be a phony if I did act that way. It would be forced. It would be phony. It would not be freeing or liberating, because it would not be ME.

I really don't need anyone, gay or straight, feminine or masculine, male or female, telling me how to be gay or who to be, period. Especially when they don't know me from Adam. Seems to me, if you're looking for oppression to decry, you might start a little closer to home.
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Postby dracuscalico » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:16 pm

Being "gay" might mean being feminine, if you've adopted that socio-political lifestyle, but being homosexual is STRICTLY about having sex with the same gender. "Gay" is when you build an entire lifestyle around it. Have you noticed how the gay press shys away from using the word homosexual while they use the word heterosexual freely?

Gay is more like a pagan religion, than a minority group, because just like a religion, no one has to know what you are, unless you do something to demonstrate it. Unlike a minority group, gays can change their behavior in a microsecond to escape detection. The truest distinction being that being a minority is about geneology. Real minorities don't have to go through soul searching or therapy to figure out the best time to tell their parents.

The gay lifestyle is to homosexuality, what the hip hop lifestyle is to being African American. Just a social construct of how to behave that doesn't really relect everyone, though it is being presented to the public as the norm, because the Media makes it's living off of attention grabbing spectacle.

Homosexuals don't all have an inner sissy anymore than African Americans have an inner street rapper. It's just hype.
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Postby Daknee » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:17 pm

"Homosexuals don't all have an inner sissy anymore than African Americans have an inner street rapper. It's just hype."

Dracuscalico, You've said it perfectly!!! :lol: I love the way you phrased that. It made me laugh!!
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Postby DeckApe » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:18 pm

Wow. Quote of the day for Straightacting.com!
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Postby Pazuzu P. Sasquatch » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:20 pm

But do all homosexuals have an inner street-rapper?

Or is that another thread? :D
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Postby Earl Butz » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:25 pm

Oh I think we all have an inner sissy. The natives call it "feminine spirits".

We all have sexual desire for a man.
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Postby Pazuzu P. Sasquatch » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:30 pm

My inner-rapper kinda swishes when he walks, come to think of it. :wink:
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Re: Why do some gays out there worry about being masculine..

Postby PhillyAgenda » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:29 pm

What a bunch of malarkey.
Desperate wrote:start letting out your lisp, lilt, lift, wrist, twist, and swish.

Ha! That's a tongue twister.
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Postby masculinity » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:50 am

Earl Butz wrote:I just act how I act. I've been told it's not very gay at all. :?


So much for 'gay pride'... :roll:

If you're gay then act gay, why act straight?
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby masculinity » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:08 am

Daknee wrote:"Being gay doe not make a person less of a man. This is the stereotyped persona the hetro world wants and promotes us all to think.

You mean the homo world doesn't???:?

... And the history of 'gay', and the biology of 'gay' (look at all the gays are like straight women theories!!!)

Daknee wrote:For me I am a human being period. As an individual human being I am comprised of many facets. One of those facests just happens to include liking men. That in it self does not make me less of a man.

Liking men in itself doesn't make you less of a man... Taking on the gay identity does. Those are the real rules... you want to close your eyes to it... you are not fooling anyone, not even fellow gays, who will keep rejecting you for your queerness, or keep calling you a 'girl'...

Daknee wrote:What I try to advocate is that I am equal to any man out there no matter what.

Yes, just like women are equal to men... yet women are not men, and they don't have manhood.

Daknee wrote:What we as homosexuals face today is no different that what any stereotyped race may be going through.

Stereotypes often have some element of truth in it... when they don't then the community members work against those stereotypes.

Gays are stereotyped as effeminate, but it doesn't need a genius to notice that they are feminine gendered. This femininity should be more positively portrayed, that is a different issue.

Daknee wrote:For example, at one time the Black race was thought of or portrayed as dumb and ignorant. But because many of that race continued to advocate and constructively eliminate that image; that image or stereoytype is no longer portrayed. Are there dumb and ignorant Black people? Yes, but that does not define the race.

There you have the answer to your comment... If 99% of blacks were dumb, then this stereotype would have been perfectly valid. But since, its not true, blacks worked against the stereotype and today no one believes that.

That gay means effeminate-males-who-like-men is clear from the fact that when masculine men are forced by western definitions to choose between their masculine-gender or their sexuality-for-men, they choose to give up their sexuality rather than be counted with the queers.

Daknee wrote:Just as Earl as stated. Sexuality is a spectrum. However that spectrum does not apply only to homosexuals. There is a spectrum present in the hetrosexal world too.

Living in your own small well...:roll:
If sexuality is a spectrum in the heterosexual world too, then you are admittiing that they too have a sexuality for men... in that case, you understand that it doesn't make them 'gay'... so 'gay' only applies to effeminate males... right?
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby masculinity » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:56 am

Pazuzu P. Sasquatch wrote:Desperate,

There's nothing wrong with being a feminine guy, whether one prefers guys or women. But you've really kind of answered your own question when you assume that a masculine gay man is "denying his true feminine personality."

In my mind this website exists, at least in part, as a reaction to the kind of crap you're spouting above -- an insistence that, if a guy likes guys, there's some inner girly-girl just busting to get out of him and that there's an inherent dishonesty about any gay guy who doesn't lisp, flip his wrists, etc.

That's really bullshit. I've got gay friends who are quite feminine. They are who they are, and if someone's a decent person, I don't care much about their mannerisms. But I'm not "oppressing" them when I myself don't act that way, and I'd be a phony if I did act that way. It would be forced. It would be phony. It would not be freeing or liberating, because it would not be ME.

I really don't need anyone, gay or straight, feminine or masculine, male or female, telling me how to be gay or who to be, period. Especially when they don't know me from Adam. Seems to me, if you're looking for oppression to decry, you might start a little closer to home.


The masculinity of gays (of those who falsely believe they're masculine) is limited to putting on a masculine act -- as the name of this site 'straight-acting', itself suggests. Its limited to putting on straight facades. But the moment you scratch that facade, the gay won't be far to seek... often in the first hello, but sometimes a bit farther...

True masculine males never take on the gay identity... they would rather disown their sexual need for men, than be counted with the half-males/half-females.

The masculine males need the company of other masculine males, whoever their sexual preferences maybe... gays on the other hand, are the ones who seek a separate identity than normal (at least what is considered the normal male gender), regular, masculine males.

Like I said, wake up...
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby Pazuzu P. Sasquatch » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:05 am

You're really full of sh*t. Get some help.
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Postby masculinity » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:13 am

dracuscalico wrote:Being "gay" might mean being feminine, if you've adopted that socio-political lifestyle, but being homosexual is STRICTLY about having sex with the same gender. "Gay" is when you build an entire lifestyle around it. Have you noticed how the gay press shys away from using the word homosexual while they use the word heterosexual freely?


What crap...:o

Gay and homosexual is the same thing... It were the homosexuals, who started to call themselves gays, because they thought 'homosexual' was too clinical... some may still prefer to call themselves homosexual, but it means the same thing... effeminate guys who actively seek receptive anal/ oral sex.

dracuscalico wrote:Gay is more like a pagan religion, than a minority group, because just like a religion, no one has to know what you are, unless you do something to demonstrate it. Unlike a minority group, gays can change their behavior in a microsecond to escape detection. The truest distinction being that being a minority is about geneology. Real minorities don't have to go through soul searching or therapy to figure out the best time to tell their parents.

What's the point in taking on an identity that you are so ashamed of that you have to hide... isn't that double standard?

dracuscalico wrote:The gay lifestyle is to homosexuality, what the hip hop lifestyle is to being African American. Just a social construct of how to behave that doesn't really relect everyone, though it is being presented to the public as the norm, because the Media makes it's living off of attention grabbing spectacle.

Are more than 90% of African Americans into hip-hop...? Do African American who are into hip-hop have a history? Gays do... they have always been known as the Third sex... in all societies. Third sex, incidentally means Queer, or a half-male/ half-female.

dracuscalico wrote:Homosexuals don't all have an inner sissy anymore than African Americans have an inner street rapper. It's just hype.

Really... so all that effeminacy is taught to them by the society? Very interesting... Then why do some heterosexuals also learn them? According to your theory, homosexuals are socially constructed to be this way and heterosexuals are not?
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby masculinity » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:42 am

Daknee wrote:"Homosexuals don't all have an inner sissy anymore than African Americans have an inner street rapper. It's just hype."

Dracuscalico, You've said it perfectly!!! :lol: I love the way you phrased that. It made me laugh!!

You scratch my back... I'll scratch yours... and together we will shut our eyes to the whole world... and believe it doesn't exist... :roll: :roll: :roll:
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby masculinity » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:51 am

dracuscalico wrote:The gay lifestyle is ...just a social construct

So is "homosexuality'... You may not have cared to read it, but the entire world, and so many experts in the West have been crying themselves hoarse trying to tell you guys this... But you guys are too busy spreading lies that have no time for the truth...

dracuscalico wrote:it is being presented to the public as the norm, because the Media makes it's living off of attention grabbing spectacle.

If it weren't for the media there would not be any gays or homosexuals... media has a predominant role in creating these identities and people... in creating a new weird social construct of homosexuality... a new social space for effeminate queers who sought receptive sex from men, that they nevertheless called "men who like men" space... of course real men saw through all this and rejected this as a space or identity for men who like men...
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby PhillyAgenda » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:03 pm

masculinity wrote:The masculinity of gays (of those who falsely believe they're masculine) is limited to putting on a masculine act -- as the name of this site 'straight-acting', itself suggests. Its limited to putting on straight facades. But the moment you scratch that facade, the gay won't be far to seek... often in the first hello, but sometimes a bit farther...

True masculine males never take on the gay identity... they would rather disown their sexual need for men, than be counted with the half-males/half-females.

The term straight-acting is a bit misleading I think. There are guys who adjust their mannerisms/voice and such to appear masculine. But there are also guys who have sexual relationships with other men that don't need to adjust anything about themselves, and are mistaken for heterosexual men all the time because people associate homosexual men with being feminine.

What exactly is the gay identity?
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Postby masculinity » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:16 am

PhillyAgenda wrote:What exactly is the gay identity?


In the ancient world, humans were divided into three distinct gender identities:

1. Man: (predominantly, not exclusively, masculine males)
2. Women: (predominantly feminine females)
3. Third Gender: (Both male and female at the sametime, including, Feminine males; Masculine females; hermaphrodites, etc.)

Sexual preferences or orientation was just not an issue in determining these identities. you could be a man and sexually desire anyone or anything, you'd remain one of the 'men'... ditto for Third Gender.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Around the middle ages, Gender identities became politicized in order to force 'Men' to get bound into marriage and reproduce more than they do naturally -- by restricting male-male sexual/ romantic bonds.

The formal definitions of gender identities were changed as follows, by bringing in the element of sexual acts in the definitions (but not sexual orientation):

1. Man: Male who penetrates
2. Woman: Females (they get penetrated)
3. Third Gender: (males/ eunuchs/ hermaphrodites who seek to be penetrated by men)

The practical definitions of gender identities essentially remained the same (as humans basically tend to associate, relate and identify on the basis of their biological gender, not anything else): i.e. men were essentially masculine gendered males, but they took on the 'penetrator' roles (not identities) in sex, and disowned an interest in receiving penetration from anyone. In fact, they competed to prove a repulsion towards being penetrated.

The Third sex, continued to be essentially feminine gendered males, who now took on the role of receiving penetration from men. Masculine males who were caught having receptive sex were seen as 'lesser males' but not really third sex.

Third gender that desired women went completely underground, because the society didn't want to give them any space or recognition, in order to portray man-woman vaginal intercourse as 'manly'.

With this, through intense social engineering in middle ages, the third gender, which was once the most revered of human genders, now became extremely marginalized and stigmatized, and men started to avoid anything that was associated with them, in order to avoid being labeled as 'half-males/ half-females'. The worst dishonor for a man, for which he was justified to kill another, was to call him a 'third gender' (e.g. a Catamite in ancient Greece, or a Hijra in India).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the beginning of the modern era... with the advent of science, the forces which were empowered by the above mentioned politics and were now ruling the society (Forces of Heterosexualization), initiated the following reorganisation of society:

1. Destroying men's spaces and heterosexualizing them, often in the name of 'women's liberation'. This made men and their bonds especially vulnerable -- as it was already a love that could not speak its name, and was hiding in the safety of these very men's spaces.

2. Science started to call the third sex (which was called by various local names, such as mollies, queers, faggots, etc. which all meant (like Hijras) the feminine gendered males who had receptive sex with men)... they labeled these members of the third sex as "men who liked men". You see, science did not recognize human gender (masculinity/ femininity) as a valid trait distinct from human sex (male/ female), so they called these half-males/ half-females people as 'men', something that was used only for 'masculine gendered males' earlier.

But that did not mean that in reality, these gender traits stopped making a difference. In reality gender continued to be the basis of human identities. Only it now started to be confused with 'sexuality'.

3. When science so redefined the third gender, men started to disown any kind of liking for another men like plague, in order to escape being identified as a half-male/ half-female. Thus, they started to be seen as exclusively heterosexual, whether or not they really liked women, since being masculine, they were under intense pressure to prove their 'penetrating' status, which was now changed into a proof of desire for women.

However, men never wanted this pressure to be converted into an identity.. and they themselves never called themselves 'heterosexuals'. Straight men are always the ones who have a direct stake in keeping male sexuality as fluid.

It were the newly empowered third gender, which were now being called the 'homosexuals', who imposed upon the 'men' the 'heterosexual' identity, which they called 'straight' (i.e. normal/ regular guys). As you can see, 'normal', 'regular' male has the connotation of gender, i.e. being masculine, but it was seen as synonymous with being heterosexual (sexuality).

Even today, the 'Men' call themselves 'heterosexual' or 'straight' only when forced to do so, in order to distinguish themselves from the queers (gays). Otherwise they just call themselves 'men'.

4. The male Gender identities have been redefined by the modern West as follows:

a). Man: (now called Straight/ heterosexual male): Male who has a constant and exclusive sexual desire for women.

b). Third gender: (now called Gay/ homosexual/bisexual 'man'): Male who has any kind of sexual desire for men.

5. The practical definitions of gender identities still remain essentially the same (as humans basically tend to associate, relate and identify on the basis of their biological gender, not anything else): Thus 'Men'-- now 'Straight males' -- are still essentially masculine gendered males, but they now take on heterosexual roles and claim to have exclusive and constant sexual need for women. In fact, they compete to prove a repulsion against male eroticism and against the desire for men itself.

6. Confusing Gender with Sexuality: The Gender identities are now known in the West as Sexual identities (as human gender and sexual identities and traits are confused as 'one' -- Heterosexuality constituting 'Manhood', while 'Homosexuality' constituting 'Queerhood').

To like men is now supposed to indicate an effeminate streak in a male, no matter how 'manly' he tries to behave. There are times when someone refers to a man who exhibits a sexual interest in another man as 'masculine', but it is more as a patronising thing, or an exception, never considered real. Yet it was not so in the pre-sexual orientation days.

Even Western science conducts experiment on the queers and claims that "Men who like men" have biological constituents of females (like a female like brain).

Similarly to like women is to have proved one's manhood. No further proofs needed. If you become insecure about your manhood, just exhibit even a fake interest in girls, and you will gain back your confidence as a man, and your social image as a 'man'.

No matter, how much some gays may deny it, but its true that both within the gay world and outside, 'gay' and 'effeminate' is used interchangably both within gay world and outside, as in "you're looking so gay", or "you don't look gay". Its the gays who have stigmatized the entire range of male to male desire, by defining themselves as 'men who like men'.

The third gendered male is today also referred to as a 'man', but he is known as a lesser 'man', a queer 'man', a gay 'man', an effeminate 'man', a different 'man'.

The Western society has so much done away with Gender as a trait and confused those traits with 'sexual preferences' that, today, Gender is thought to be non-existent... and it is sexuality that is supposed to distinguish between normal, regular, masculine guys from the 'different', alternative', effeminate or less manly guys. That is why gays so much insist on defining straight as heterosexual, while claiming at the same time that both hetero and homo can be masculine.

7) The original stigma that was attached earlier to Third sex, and male effeminacy is now transferred to what is called 'gay' or homosexuality. But slowly as people forget the concept of gender, this hatred and stigma continues and grows, and has male effeminacy as its base, but, is now seen totally in terms of a desire for another male. The hatred is transferred from the trait of effeminacy to the trait of liking men, which has become extremely stigmatized.

However, in the straight world, if you're straight (i.e. normal, masculine) and you desire another male quietly without acknowledging it, they will not only accept you as one of them, they'll even seek you to fulfill their own suppressed sexual feelings for men. The line between straight and gay as far as straights are concerned is 'acknowledging' the need.
Last edited by masculinity on Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby kyrio » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:30 am

Pazuzu P. Sasquatch wrote:But do all homosexuals have an inner street-rapper?

Or is that another thread? :D



Talkin about rapper.... so, who are gay AfroAmerican rappers?
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Postby masculinity » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:32 am

PhillyAgenda wrote:The term straight-acting is a bit misleading I think.

These terms are very much in place.

The only things that are misleading are the formal Western definitions of human gender and sexuality.

But when people get down to using these terms at the ground level, a lot of the original means of these terms find a place in practice.

So, straight may be defined as 'heterosexual', but gays use it to define their put-ons about 'masculinity'... (I'm mean straight acting guys are pretending to be masculine, not pretending to like women... accept it... another example of confusing gender and sexuality as one and the same thing).

And I've met and spoken to scores of 'straight-acting' men... and I can tell you this from experience, their masculinity is indeed a fake act... They may not be cross dressers or extremely feminine, yet, their masculinity is just superflous, a show, a pretense... and thus the term straight-acting is not far from the truth.

Like I said, real masculine men who exclusively like men, prefer to stay in the world of normal, regular guys, and keeping the 'normal', 'regular' male identity, even if means pretending to be heterosexual, or hiding/ suppressing their sexual needs.
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby masculinity » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:48 am

As long as liking men will be associated with the queer identity/ space, men who acknowledge their sexual interest in men will have to struggle to be counted or seen as 'men' or as 'masculine males' (also known as Real men in the West).
Gays are a different species altogether from men (and women). They're not "men who like men," they are "third gender who like men."

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Postby dracuscalico » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:34 am

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Postby Cachasa » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:13 am

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


This whole topic is LAME!!!!!!!!!
Cachasa
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Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:40 pm
Location: Shilo Manitoba Canada

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