Why Straight Guys Have Gay Sex...

[Pazuzu P. Sasquatch]

Wake up to the truth yourself. Pretentious, neurotic, self-serving crap remains so however many times you repeat it. . .

Z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z, etc.

[olywaguy]

The only reason so-called straight guys have sex with other guys is because they are bored and their girl friends won't suck them off or do anything else they consider gross.

Fair enough... so the straight guys are not quite repulsive to male eroticism, at least... then why are Western men supposed to be so repulsed with holding another guy's hands, or to be physically intimate with him. And if they can hold someone's cock, then why are they averse to a kiss from a guy...

These men are repulsed by kissing and holding hands because it is too intimate. They equate such intimacy with women and see it as a feminine quality. Since he's so macho, he won't do that.

Usually when these so-called straight guys are having sex with another guy is as a top. Since most straight guys are tops that is a very manly thing to do. They see the guy being the bottom as a woman and therefore, in their minds, the same as being with their girlfriend.

[masculinity]

The only reason so-called straight guys have sex with other guys is because they are bored and their girl friends won't suck them off or do anything else they consider gross.

Fair enough... so the straight guys are not quite repulsive to male eroticism, at least... then why are Western men supposed to be so repulsed with holding another guy's hands, or to be physically intimate with him. And if they can hold someone's cock, then why are they averse to a kiss from a guy...

These men are repulsed by kissing and holding hands because it is too intimate. They equate such intimacy with women and see it as a feminine quality. Since he's so macho, he won't do that.

Usually when these so-called straight guys are having sex with another guy is as a top. Since most straight guys are tops that is a very manly thing to do. They see the guy being the bottom as a woman and therefore, in their minds, the same as being with their girlfriend.

I know that... my point is, that straight men are scared of intimacy with men not because they are naturally repulsed sexually by men, but because of a social fear of being considered queer or effeminate.

This fear of emotional and sexual intimacy with men is socially engineered and brought about by manipulating the definition of manhood and queerhood, of which the concept of 'sexual orientation' is a perfect example.

And that in societies, basically non-westernized, non-heteroseualized societies, where queer is not defined as man to man intimacy, men frequently have deep sexual and romantic bonds with other men. Their 'repulsion' towards this intmacy goes on increasing as more and more man-to-man intimacy is brought under the purview of 'queer'. In other words, the degree of their comfort with intimacy with men is determined by how much the society allows them to do it, within the definition of social manhood (or straight).

And that is why I'm opposing the concept of sexual orientation and the 'straight' and 'gay' identities. Because, they represent a conspiracy to break straight men away from men... so that only men who are comfortable with femininity may dare to cross the line of displaying an intimacy with men. And it is this crossing of line from manhood to queerhood that the gay identity represents. Which is why it is not suitable for 'normal', 'regular' guys -- these qualities are the true essence of the straight identity, and not heterosexuality, which is just an artificial, socially engineered definition of 'normal' guys, set by the queers.

[masculinity]

In other words, the straight-gay, divide -- as far as the sexuality element is concerned, is artificial, socially orchestrated, and harmful to the cause of male-bonds -- and indeed eventually of men as a species. It is not natural or biological.

Because, straight men are pressurised -- to give up their need of intimacy (sexual and otherwise) for menn -- by conditioning, by manipulating the definitions of manhood and queerhood, by fear of ridicule, isolation and disempowerment, by the fear of losing manhood, by intense hostility generated by peer-groups and the media, and so on. The entire western, heterosexual society is deeply involved in this conspiracy to break men from men.

And this is the basis of their oppression.

[masculinity]

I mean accept it, the only reason why the concept of sexual orientation was invented was to discourage mainstream men from being intimate with each other.

Because, When, in the West, the Forces of Heterosexualization (FOH) started asking for freedom for man-woman sexuality in the name of 'sexual freedom', they could no more deny this freedom to men to have sex with men. And, considering that all men have an inherent sexual need for men (which can even overpower their sexual need for women, if allowed freedom), and that almost 100% of men in any case, were already secretly relating sexually with other men, albeit secretly, the FOH could not afford to do it.

There was only one way to avoid this, and it was to create a separate zone for man-man intimacy, which would ensure that the mainstream men's space (i.e. normal/ masculine/ straight male space) could be kept free of an acceptance of such intimacy... and at the same time stigmaitize man-man intimacy in a way (as queer) that was never before witnessed in the history of mankind. Once this intimacy was sidelined as queer, they started to socially engineer immense hostility against this intimacy in the straight spaces, in order to cleanse it of such intimacy and to make sure that it is never allowed to grow in that space. Any sign of intimacy with men, even social intimacy like holding hands, is promptly forcefully isolated into the stigmatized 'queer' ghetto. If there is no conspiracy, why is the western world, including its media and science, painstakingly creating this hostility and misinformation?

Now, outwardly, the heterosexual society can claim that they have given freedom to man to man sexual intimacy as 'gay' -- but this freedom is actually a farce... a deep conspiracy against men, where the Forces of heterosexualization (FOH) have cleverly sidelined the entire issue of man to man sexuality on the fringes of the society, and burdened it with social femininity -- and all this politics/ conspiracy/ manipulation goes on behind the scenes, unacknowledged... so no one can talk about it or question it.

Hopefully, globalization will challenge the West and its machinations, as they begin to thrust their heterosexualization (with its homo-hetero divide) on other societies.

[Pazuzu P. Sasquatch]

P-f-f-f-f-f-t. . . .

[Schlodesss]

I haven't read the entire thread.

I did just read Masculinitys last three posts. And I do agree with them.

[masculinity]

To come back to the topic of this thread:

If a male human has the sexual desire (and I mean real sexual desire [the one that simply is and that you can't really create], not just curiosity) to have sex with another male human being (both at least adolescent of course) than he is, per definition, NOT straight/heterosexual. Simple as that.

If a self-identifed heterosexual male human being wants to have sex with another male human being, than the self-identification is either wrong or that person may have serious problems.

Or maybe the definitions that created homosexuals and heterosexuals are wrong.

[Odeh]

I think Kinsey had it right, (saw the movie by the way) looking at
observable things in nature which is the basis of science..humans have
a full spectrum of sexual orientation which would place MOST males being
attracted to men to varying degrees partly to fully...

"Gay" and "Straight" are not neat little boxes this binary either/or
thinking common in American culture does not reflect the actual
behaviour in people..

The title maybe should be why males have sex with males all or part of the
time... I like the link where the males answer why they do..

I find it interesting that "Gay" seems to be voluntary identification and
"Straight" is assumed by default in this culture...

Or if a straight guy says he is straight..it is usually in comparison
to something that is considered gay..otherwise he says im a guy...

I like to question things and why words mean what they mean and the
logic of statements...as in what do you mean by that?

[Daknee]

I think Kinsey had it right, (saw the movie by the way) looking at
observable things in nature which is the basis of science..humans have
a full spectrum of sexual orientation which would place MOST males being
attracted to men to varying degrees partly to fully...

"Gay" and "Straight" are not neat little boxes this binary either/or
thinking common in American culture does not reflect the actual
behaviour in people..

The title maybe should be why males have sex with males all or part of the
time... I like the link where the males answer why they do..

I find it interesting that "Gay" seems to be voluntary identification and
"Straight" is assumed by default in this culture...

Or if a straight guy says he is straight..it is usually in comparison
to something that is considered gay..otherwise he says im a guy...

I like to question things and why words mean what they mean and the
logic of statements...as in what do you mean by that?

I agree with you Kinsey scale makes the most sense from anything else. His scale explains the variences or degrees of sexuality in the human. It seem nothing in nature is ever black and white.

[masculinity]

I agree with you Kinsey scale makes the most sense from anything else. His scale explains the variences or degrees of sexuality in the human. It seem nothing in nature is ever black and white.

Still we perceive Sex and Gender (i.e. inner male identity -masculinity; and inner female identity - femininity) as an identity -- as our social identity. They are the basis upon which we relate with the others... and the others relate with us... as men, women or as people who are partly men and partly women.

Sexuality, on the other hand is just a preference, it doesn't lend itself into an identity. The entire sexual orientation identity is a fake.

Effeminate males hide their effeminacy behind their sexual desire for men, instead of accepting their femininity proudly for what it is, and saying there's nothing wrong with it.

[nimby]

One more reason I think I've recently discovered.

Straight guys will often run to another guy as a form of escape. Escape from the stress of their jobs, family pressures, marital strife, nagging kids, just general burdens of being the dominant force in straight family life. Many secretly crave to be dominated themselves (and not necessarily with whips and chains). Maybe also to have a taste of the life they could've had but chose the other road.

A prepared list of chores, screaming kids, pms-ing wife and all that lovely stuff can and does, occasionally, send a straight man runnung for shelter. Believe me, I know. A sane haven. "Do what ever you want to me, just please don't send me home tonight."

[douglassnow]

A little belatedly (I've been away), I'd like to re-introduce the results of the report of the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, entitled "Discordance between Sexual Behavior and Self-Reported Identity, a Population-Based Survey of [4,193 foreign-born and native] New York Men":

1. 10% of self-identified straight men have sex only with other men.
2. 10% of straight men have had sex with at least one man in the last year.
3. 10% of married men also have sex with men.
4. 70% of straight men who have sex other men are married.
5. Only 54% of straight men who have sex with women are married.

With no respect whatsoever, there's nothing in this dry litany that suggests escapism, femininity, or "gayness"--except that, certainly, the women these men are married to, know nothing whatever about their husbands' same-sex experiences. Why not simply accept that straight men have gay sex because they want to, and that they enjoy it for its own sake? And why should we not accept their own "discordant" view of themselves, and the gay sex they engage in, as straight--not "gay," and by no means feminine? Ask any normally masculine gay man (we exist): What the hell does femininity have to do with gay sex? And as Nimby's latest post suggests--What the hell does dominance (or submission) have to do with either straight or gay sex? The answer to both questions--unless you know something I don't--is nothing at all.

Sorry I'm so late in getting back to you, Nimby, but I didn't really think you'd take such exception to my dismissal of the study of child brain development as irrelevant to this question, or to my flat ridicule of your notion of the social evolution of femininity. I thought you'd take it in better part. My objection to what you call "analytical" psychology is that it isn't analytical. It does not address the empirical facts of an issue--like why straight men have gay sex--and try to derive an analytical description from them. Rather, it starts with all kinds of a priori assumptions ("looking for expression of their feminine natures," "escape," "seeking to relinquish dominance") and tries to shove the subject into the procrustean mould. A classic instance of this method is Freudian analysis--or any of the infinitely presumptive Viennese "depth" psychologies. Be that as it may...You'll notice, if you'll do the algebraic math of how many straight men are actually having gay sex (like figuring compound interest), it comes to about the same 40%+ figure that Kinsey guesstimated oh so many decades ago. And when things are roughly in the Kinsey ballpark, I think (feel or intuit) we're onto something.

[nimby]

Wow! A blast from the past. NIce to see you back.

Well , this original thread is well over a year old, but if you want to continue it, ok by me. Now let me see, um, you didn't like the research I quoted from an accredited American University on brain development. Ok. And you didn't like my theory of escapism from complicated feminine/family issues (of which I know many self proclaimed "straight, married men" who do this just for the shear ease of intercourse), yet really gave no facts to support your findings except for a great big, "because it feels good." Ok. Back it up. All sex feels good, so why are these "straight" guys seeking out man on man sex? There's got to be a reason, lots of reasons actually. Just pick one and show your documentation.

And for the record, there were absolutely no hard feelings. I love a good debate. But debating on such a personal topic with very limited data is next to impossible. One's person's reasons for acting the way they do may very greatly from another's reasons, yet still come to the same result, gay sex. And neither is wrong or right. Just different.

[Odeh]

From my experience..there are masculine guys who socially move in the mainstream straight world..and do not move in the gay subculture...they go to gyms and NASCAR...
they know they like guys..so they meet guys on an individual basis(personals for "friendship")...They use "gay" as a verb not a noun.."I was gay with him" or "I was not gay
with HIM"..They do not even know where the gay things are..in the gay subculture..I find this invisible group interesting socialogically..

[olywaguy]

From my experience..there are masculine guys who socially move in the mainstream straight world..and do not move in the gay subculture...they go to gyms and NASCAR...
they know they like guys..

I know a gay guy from Alabama who loves NASCAR and all types of race car driving.

Let me repeat this once again...the only thing that makes a guy gay is his attraction to other guys...that's it!! No big mystery...a guy is attracted to another guy.

Doing the dishes doesn't make you gay just like throwing the trash makes you masculine. Gay guys like race car driving, football, baseball, drinking beer just as much any other guy.

We need to stop stereotyping ourselves. If we do that, why are we surprised when others do it to us? The whole point of this website is to beat those stereotypes. That we all have our own personalities and interests and that in the end, we are all just like any other person walking the streets.

If anyone is dumb enough to ask me "do I look gay to you?" I will always answer "yes" to that stupid question because gay guys come in all shapes and sizes. There is not a certain look or the way they dress or act or anything about anybody. We just are who we are.

[J]

How about, you're either straight, gay or part of that mysterious gray area many are into, but few are willing to admit?

No "gray area" here. Haven't got the slightest sexual desire to "do it" with a woman, though I do find some to be very beautiful (guys aren't "beautiful" IMO, to me, rugged and/or handsome are features I find hot with guys), and according to my Facebook page, almost half my friends are female! If you want to talk in the "BFF" sense, they're overwhelmingly female (many of whom I've been friends with for decades), But no sexual desire.

[selective_soldier]

I‘ve had my own personal views of guys having sex with guys who profess heterosexuality.
As the years have gone by, I’ve noticed I’ve missed the mark a few times on my guessing, I’ve been right a lot of times as well.
I’ve surmised it to some guys do It for pay, some for pleasure, some are just figuring themselves out.

[qwertz]

In adolescence a kind of homosexual stage is generally "accepted" or recognised. Some even dare to speak about a choice at the end of that stage in the right direction which would then be heterosexuality (!?!?!?!?!?), so that you finally become an "adult" (!?!?!?!?) according to some backward idiots.

The so-called adolescent homosexual phase has only been created as a means to mislead guys about their sexuality and push them as cattle in women's arms. Whenever later on after marriage homosexuality prevails in them, they have made the mistake, not society. Putting things upside down.

Notions like "adolescent homosexual phase", "emergency homosexuality", "sexual orientation change" and the like must be banned forever as criminal notions explicitely meaned to mislead. They are only the societal electric cattle prods (*) to push the male cattle the so-called "right" way. They serve as some excuse to avoid too much guys switch sides so that most guys seem str8 to safeguard the str8 myth.

Anyway sexuality does NOT change at the ages 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, or after. You remain the same with exactly the same sexuality. Thinking it changes, is only a societally induced deceiving impression.

After having seen in my adolescence in my boarding school the kinds of male-to-male sexual interaction, I really wonder how much heterosexuality is left in men, though when at reunions in my boarding school I try to speak about it, no one remembers. Must all have undergone some heavy brain-washing or are may be "converted" (it was a catholic boarding school)

* http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... e_prod.jpg

[nimby]

I have to respectfully disagree.

When a straight guy goes gay, he is told that he has always been gay and was just in denial, no in between. But when a gay guy goes straight (and yes, there are lots of them too, and not through a deprogramming process), they don't tell him that he was in denial. Most likey bi. Why does it go one way and not the other. I think there are plenty of "prodders" pushing men to embrace homosexuality as well, just like being prodded to be straight. Why is the concept of sexual fluidity so difficult for a gay man to accept?

Luckily valueable research is being done in the field. Dr. Lucy Diamond has completed an in depth study in female sexual fluidity, but as yet, little has been done inm the area of male sexual fluidity. Hopefully that will be the next step. I truly believe that all people are born with some degree of bisexuality and are "prodded" down one path or another. But things are changing rather quickly in this day and age.

[Rico]

... Why is the concept of sexual fluidity so difficult for a gay man to accept?

Luckily valueable research is being done in the field. Dr. Lucy Diamond has completed an in depth study in female sexual fluidity, but as yet, little has been done inm the area of male sexual fluidity. Hopefully that will be the next step. I truly believe that all people are born with some degree of bisexuality and are "prodded" down one path or another. But things are changing rather quickly in this day and age.

You're absolutely right that almost everybody has difficulty accepting the reality of sexual fluidity. I'm not going to get into a debate about which side is more strident about it, just to say that there are way too many of them on all sides chanting the mantra "You're either playing on our team or you're not!" Human sexuality has never been that one dimensional, nor will it ever be.

[qwertz]

Research done until now shows much less sexual fluidity in men than in women.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/personal ... index.html

[Mike]

Well in my opinion, alot of it is due to the fact that "straight guys" worry what people will think. Iv been seeing a married man for the last 7 months. Im not proud of it by the way. But iv just finished with him because he is to scared to leave his wife. He is worried what people will think and say about him. Im 30 and he's 36 and he says he's to old to "come out". We live in quite a big city in England and to be fair these days, most people couldn't care less if someone is gay or straight. But its his loss at the end of the day. Anyway my point is even if so called straight men enjoy a gay life style. Alot of them will not come out of the closet because they are to worried what people will think.

[nimby]

Well in my opinion, alot of it is due to the fact that "straight guys" worry what people will think. Iv been seeing a married man for the last 7 months. Im not proud of it by the way. But iv just finished with him because he is to scared to leave his wife. He is worried what people will think and say about him. Im 30 and he's 36 and he says he's to old to "come out". We live in quite a big city in England and to be fair these days, most people couldn't care less if someone is gay or straight. But its his loss at the end of the day. Anyway my point is even if so called straight men enjoy a gay life style. Alot of them will not come out of the closet because they are to worried what people will think.

How about this, that maybe he's not to scared to come out for what others will think, how about being to scared to come out cause his wife may pack up the kids and split? Believe it or not, many, many people, male and female, gay or straight actually cherish their families and their children and don't want to loose them. You can say it's his loss all you want, if that's what makes you feel better. But I bet his loss, his children, would be much greater to him than you. The old adage of, " have his cake and eat it too," no longer applies. Why shouldn't he? The right to reproduce and be a loving and nurturing parent should not be limited to only hetero people, should it?